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Paladin's patch
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 7:10 pm    Post subject:

Regarding request, that ability is really useful for newbies, and if we didn't have it in the game, I'm sure goods would be willing to give newbies some equipment of an appropriate level to help them on their way. It also is really good at level 50 since it means being able to just walk up to a lvl 55 mob and unload it of its equipment without having to spend an hour killing it first. Request is a nice perk.

It isn't really request that is the problem, its that good-aligns compete for the same rare equipment, and they don't have a way to relieve each other of it. This makes them vulnerable to shortages in the case of rares. It would still be like that even if you didn't need to request the items. The points being made against request is a general downsides of playing a lightwalker. We tend to put the focus on the requested gear, but really it is all of it. Anyway, this is a paladin thread, not a good-align thread. So lets just say things like the wrath spell makes a paladin less gear-dependent, that's good to keep in mind.
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Merlandox



Joined: 31 Mar 2016
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:00 pm    Post subject:

Faelon, I'm not trying to push for a status quo or anything. I just don't think paladins are as underwhelming as what you guys make it out to be. However, I haven't had a serious paladin for a long time, so u guys know better.

I thought this thread is about paladin's group leader ability, to make them have beneficial abilities as a group. How did it evolve to paladin's being too weak? Lol.

If the wrath lag is really a big problem then reduce the wrath lag? Fireball and iceball dealing so much damage is a DK problem rather than a paladin problem. Why is fireball dealing as much damage as an invoker's AOE spells? Kinda OP IMO.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 9:40 pm    Post subject:

Ok Merlandox, lets say for argument sake, we have a skill for warriors which does a very conservative 30 damage (3 "hits"). We could call it , hmm I dont know, kick or something. Lets give that the same lag as wrath, which is a bit longer than kick lag. For arguments sake we can at least have it hit every time you try to use it. Why did I pick 30 damage? Because thats the amount of a cure serious you could cast otherwise

Lets take away your dodge skill and double the kicks damage to 60 damage. Worth it? You're gonna say no, because much of your damage is melee, you wont accept taking almost double damage yourself to double the damage of one typed skill with poor lag, which you could be bashed while trying to use.

Lets do that again, double the damage, 120 damage. Worth it? Well, you might begin to think so, since over a couple rounds, all of your attacks could be parried, and demolishes look cool. But we're going to make it a spell so the opponent can trivialize it again by wearing saves, which will lower his damroll only slightly, and meanwhile can still just bash you.

Lets double it again, 240 damage. Worth it? Well, lets make it go from 100% at full health to 0% at no health, and make it suck vs neutrals. So on average we halved it, but it sure does seem worth it the first time, against a full health evil opponent with no saves, who has not yet flee-murdered you twice (funnily enough, amounts to doubling his own damage in that time-frame) and then bashed you before you can get the next wrath off. At which point, he just does that again.

Do you still think that spell would be fixed by just reducing the lag on it?
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Dogran
Immortal


Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 1794

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 10:39 pm    Post subject:

It sounds like a whole lot of thought on your part Dav, and It is appreciated. Having had a 50 cabal leader paladin, I can attest how underwhelming they are. And yes, I used Divine Sacrifice and errantry when I was fighting without fail. And then, reasonably decked, I get out damaged by a shaman... Something is seriously wrong with that. Especially if you consider I had just full looted said shaman the day before because of a Dagnir trap. (Was justice leader, and said shaman was in torments) so I had special guard and was STILL getting out damaged.
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 10:45 pm    Post subject:

I do appreciate the amount of thought being put in as well. I’d be willing to throw out ideas if we’re willing to rebuild the class from the ground up, complete with specs. Coding all of that is a crazy amount of work though. So is this a short term thing we’re looking for or long term?

Kind of torn on them having a segment weapon like flail. Two handed exotics do exist.
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hamsandwich



Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 1:01 am    Post subject:

I don't know about balance issues (is having flail really going to make them OP?) but at least from a lore standpoint, paladins with flail makes total sense in my head.

And is wrath lag only the same as kick lag? Kick lag is actually super short. The way wrath lag was described I thought it was akin to failed berserk which is insane long for some reason.
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Faelon
Emissary


Joined: 23 Feb 2006
Posts: 938
Location: Your moms house.

PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2020 1:29 am    Post subject:

I think he was just drawing to map some things out in peoples head.

Wrath lag is very long.
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