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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 9 hours.

Q2 2020 patch - Back with a Vengeance
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:01 am    Post subject:

ALL paladins lack staff skill now.
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ivindel



Joined: 20 Nov 2015
Posts: 163
Location: Singapore

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:16 am    Post subject:

This is what is shown from the "class paladin skill" command:

Level 1: dagger n/a flail n/a
mace n/a polearm n/a
shield block n/a spear n/a
sword n/a enhanced damage n/a
hand to hand n/a parry n/a
rescue n/a staves n/a
wish n/a reckoning n/a
staff n/a condemn n/a
Level 2: inspiring presence n/a
Level 4: holy armor n/a
Level 5: lore n/a
Level 6: second attack n/a
Level 7: fast healing n/a
Level 8: set parry n/a
Level 10: disarm n/a divine might n/a
Level 11: iron will n/a
Level 12: shield disarm n/a
Level 14: meditation n/a
Level 15: bolstering presence n/a aura of beauty n/a
shield slam n/a punish n/a
guardian n/a fencing n/a
staff block n/a provoke n/a
sacred oath n/a
Level 16: lay on hands n/a
Level 17: third attack n/a
Level 20: charge n/a
Level 22: dual wield n/a
Level 24: dual parry n/a
Level 25: shield wall n/a hunt evil n/a
Level 30: repentance n/a
Level 35: stake n/a
Level 37: buckler n/a
Level 38: strike of faith n/a
Level 40: errantry n/a steed n/a
consecration n/a
Level 45: leap of faith n/a
Level 50: paragon n/a

So I assume that the staff skill is in there somewhere...
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ivindel



Joined: 20 Nov 2015
Posts: 163
Location: Singapore

PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 11:21 am    Post subject:

Anyway I think I found the answer. "staff block" skill is available to devotion paladins, so I assume that staff is only for devotion paladins, and accordingly to the helpfile, the staff block skill is to replace the "set parry" skill that is no longer available to devotion paladins.

Wow.. I really can't keep track of all these paladin changes with 4 different specializations.
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Kornhole



Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Posts: 370
Location: Melbourne, Florida

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:01 am    Post subject:

I freaking HATE specializations, especially one with this much convolution. Some newbs (like myself) will now never roll one because I am not gonna roll 4 all the way to 50 to find out wtf the differences are, and how to play each kind. I have said this many times, if you want your own special character, make it that way through gear choice, skill and spell use choice, and good RP. But w.e. It will not stop until all classes are unrecognizable from the original forms.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 3:35 am    Post subject:

And yoi've been wrong every single time. Paladins were a broken class that nobody wanted to play. Pretty sure any time someone writes "specialization" you get triggered Kornhole.
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:01 am    Post subject:

Each paladin works in their own way, but imho, devotion paladins feel a bit gimped losing set parry, they risk getting disarmed unlike with set parry. And the staff block is a thing with staff alone, so it kinda feels like a bit of shoe horning them into a 1h and shield or staff. Do they gain some neat things to combat that, yes, a neat offensive style spell and some extra buffs and healing. But it does feel a bit dry though. I don't feel like a devotion paladin would be leading the charge, being a defender, they feel a bit more like a fighter-esque healer
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Kornhole



Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Posts: 370
Location: Melbourne, Florida

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:32 am    Post subject:

You are not wrong Dav. I hate it, I always have and I almost always will (specializations). And did you mean to say that I was wrong every time I said make a character your own through choices available to any character or standard class? I could have 5 thieves all the same race even, and have them be very specialized.....just saying, don't need to complicate the hell out of classes with choices that aren't even outlined in helpfiles. Have never really been great with any class, and especially fighter types. Was going to check out berserkers, and just before I did, they now have some shit regarding religions changing their skills??? Fuck that, said I......and possibly others. It is not like I don't appreciate the effort it takes to make these classes "more enjoyable". Just HARD stating (EACH TIME) that it takes a LOT from the newbie friendliness of AR when you complicate any class like that. Also, learn to RP if you want to specialize......you need to have a class the way you want it, lets go fully customizable at creation. Hell yeah thiefy hellstream!
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Kornhole



Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Posts: 370
Location: Melbourne, Florida

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:37 am    Post subject:

FTR, Rhoa, Solmundi, and Trovo were all created before this patch, and played plenty. Does that mean they are nobody?
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Vhrael
Immortal


Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1085
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 12:13 pm    Post subject:

@Kornhole: playing devil's advocate, are Rhoa, Solmundi and Trovo all ruined characters post-update? Not at all. They had RP, yes, and they were all different personality-wise and play style, but the players behind them have adapted and continue to play them. They're not saying "ever since the spec update our characters are ruined."
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Arunore



Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Posts: 200

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 1:20 pm    Post subject:

To unlock the true potential of a class you will need to be able to utilize everything that class has to offer situationally. This means you know what to expect when fighting a class, RP, gear, is only going to have a minor affect on that. They are still using the same skills, that is not going to change how they deal with situations any different than a necro going full dmg or full hp. They will still need to heal. One will be able to last a bit longer in combat while the other bursts dps. If you are focusing on a group of a set of abilities you are neglecting the rest and selling yourself short.

I love specializations, this is what will differentiate the classes and no one class will be the old generic same. Diversity. It makes me smile.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 10:25 pm    Post subject:

This spaz-out is because paladins now have spear instead of staff and get to spec for an additional weapon. So overcomplicated! Its just irrational because the word "specialization" triggers him. And FWIW, I didn't literally mean nobody ever rolled paladins. Some people rolled paladins early because the patch was dropping soon and their suggestions ended up in it. Others made monks instead and they haven't been exactly quiet about saying it. I dont have any plans to just render the game overcomplicated or completely unplayable. I'd say we can do better than wrecking the paladin class and shoving in defender potions in their place. We simply have more good ideas for paladin skills than we can put on one class and keep it reasonable.
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Kornhole



Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Posts: 370
Location: Melbourne, Florida

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:55 am    Post subject:

"Paladins were a broken class that NOBODY wanted to play." -Davairus. I capitalized, because I don't know how to underline, but you didn't mean to say that? Many of the lvl 50 paladins were rolled far before the patch was even mentioned, and had been having reasonable amounts of hours played. I am not salty, I am not bitching, I will still prolly roll another paladin at some point. Hell, I will even prolly roll that one that gets changed to a DK when you fuck up, and will VERY likely fuck up. I love the RP possibilities that specialization can offer. And this time at least the helpfiled have been pointed out, and well clarified early. I still dont know wtf dragon ancestry is, but that is on me for not experimenting, and posting helpful tips on how to clarify the helpfiles. I do get triggered anytime specialization is mentioned, that is no exaggeration. I like the newbie friendliness of having a class's skills and spells be easily known. Now I see a paladin, and I gotta figure out if he has lightning charge, or condemn, or some other bullshit I don't even know about? W.e. It's not a big deal, spec them all, WoW it up, lets go with inscribing and runes for abilities and shit next. I will dump enough hours to eventually figure it out, and be great cannon fodder as always in the mean time. <---Butthurt I gotta figure out more nooks and crannies of a class I had actually known fairly well, when after nearly 20 years, I haven't even taken the time to learn all the areas well!
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Kornhole



Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Posts: 370
Location: Melbourne, Florida

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 12:59 am    Post subject:

@Vhrael. I bet those characters were stoked for the specialization, now they could get more nitty and gritty with what they wanted to do. I mentioned them to rebut the quote I had put in a previous post from dav about nobody wanting to play them because they had been ruined. Paladins were fine as a class. I do agree though, that the RP was not a good fit, since they are supposed to be leaders of parties, and one of their greatest abilities made them unable to play with others, as it were. I do not agree that this meant the class needed an overhaul, but hey, I am not the one making those kinds of calls. (For good reason)
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Sun Oct 25, 2020 6:57 pm    Post subject:

Did anyone look into the half-elf racial legacies for Paladins to make sure they translate over into the new skills? The one for inspiration relates directly to a skill called guardian, that looks like it is an oath of protection only skill.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 5:09 pm    Post subject:

Andrael, thanks that is a good point. That should probably become an inspiring presence thinger.
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2020 8:29 pm    Post subject:

I think it used to give a damroll bonus? Maybe allow it to do a special bonus while they have an aura up? Who knows.
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject:

damroll and mental save bonus actually.
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maeve



Joined: 04 Jan 2020
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:20 pm    Post subject:

If elf gimpaladin picks eradication, does he still get vengeance skills also? Or is it still just a gimp
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Ashlyn



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 280

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 1:41 pm    Post subject:

I believe elf defaults to eradication
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Dogran
Immortal


Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 1794

PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:57 pm    Post subject:

There is no default. You still choose.
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