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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 10 hours.

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Stiehl26



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 691

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:42 am    Post subject:

I mean there is a whole thread dedicated to the hoarding from when he did this originally. Scripted pk and rare hoarding.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:01 am    Post subject:

The way I see it, anything done to the auction house is just a band aid that misses the point. The Auction House is just recording the transactions. Its the gold that causes this. Specifically supply and demand.

So we might start with looking at the available supply of lowbie gold. Scaling bank account max might be a better idea. Maybe each gold has a weight of 1 so eventually you are carrying too much gold. Without something like that, a level 15 character scripts emerald until it can afford to pay one of you guys under the table for 100k titanium fullplate. Its a kinda dumb measure but thats what it'd take to nix the left side of that equation of its ludicrous sums of gold.

On the other hand, there is also the high level demand for that lowbie gold. The right side of the equation is what you sell fullplates for. I've seen them going for 30k gold, and I am very sure that is to help the odds of sale. So we look for what is creating a high level demand for gold. Then address that. Example, a cabal defender potion creates thirst. So therefore that item probably the leading cause of geared/hoarding lowbies. Its possible and probably better to just decouple cabal supplies from gold and find some other way of managing them. Otherwise that potion is really very impactful on all levels of gameplay. If that problem can be solved neatly, the demand dissipates and the supply is no longer relevant. I think it'd be great if that stuff was purely pvp related. Like maybe if you kill a 50 you steal 5% of their relics as cabal currency. or we could revive that cabal damage stuff and make it drain peoples bank. maybe you get a lesser amount of cabal currency for getting pk'ed
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Stiehl26



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 691

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:10 am    Post subject:

Gambling is one of the other big gold sinks.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:00 am    Post subject:

Hmm Stiehl I feel it was really only Keeper that ever whored gold for gambling.. most of what you get with that is sub-par and sets getting a nice AC buff will help with that. Keepers got gold for their eq by saccing rares so they didnt put those things up on auction.

We also have paying off wanted flags with coins. Contracts? There's some stuff. But I don't think there is a bigger driver for gold at 50 than defender potion. They are pretty much 7k gold each and who wants to farm that themselves? I would add as well having spent a bit of time looking at it today, it does not seem even right to provide a competitive edge to cabal chars like that. Go read some of Dogran log, he's a shaman, you'll see even he has been using defender potions. He did that to fight Ilromie. Why not? It just saves mana. Ilromie can't do that. They seem pretty overpowered and clear driving force for selling eq to lowbies.

Could just make it a brewable recipe that requires pris shards. That would be (a) available to everybody, (B) leads to people preferring to melt rares for shards at the fireforge or try trade with druids (who dont need weapons/metal eq ruling out a lot of rares). I'm quite confident this will impact the selling to lowbies profoundly. Would be at least a start. If we put level-10 on top of that it should be covered on both sides of the equation. Then we can just open up gambling in your hometown with cabal currency so it doesnt become overnight useless.
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Xenyar
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Joined: 26 May 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:27 pm    Post subject:

Gambling eq is the main purpose for farming gold. I think most would agree.
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Dogran
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Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 1794

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:46 pm    Post subject:

There are a bunch of good gambling spots, that gold is used for.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:37 pm    Post subject:

I'm not disagreeing about gambling motivating it, actually. Thats why I said it would be good to be able to use your cabal currency in your hometown to help gamble. Because then you wont depend on the gold as much. Whatever relieves the pressure off gold will relieve the AH selling.

Actually my point is more there are multiple economic issues going on here. I think it would be better cabal currencies collected only from pk'ing and the trickle of currency for being logged in 30 min. Having it tied to gold just incentivizes full looting and selling peoples shit to lowbies, including before the pk'ed player even logs out. (I am sure you will have experienced seeing your items go up for auction before you are even a ghost anymore and it seems like it would leave a bad taste). What I wrote about using cabal currency to gamble is what I meant to help relieve the gambling issue.


For the cabal player side (obviously loyal players), I believe we should make it a hard rule of gameplay / game balance that a cabal character cannot purchase a competitive edge over uncaballed with those special currencies, e.g. 7 tick sanc. If they are just like purple potions that is not a balance issue. I think we added a sanc to relics in Timaran so we can just make them match duration or make everything like purples. Whatever we choose works for me but it should definitely be uniform or otherwise it swings the game economy toward the best one and creates a pressure that eventually leads to our situation. I'm not saying all this to try to find a punishment for loyal players to clarify that. I think it works better if the potion is available to everybody and the currency to buy it can't be amassed by just grinding all day.

I think its perfectly fine for a person to play AR hardcore if they want, and if amassing tons of gold and rares is what they want to do, that makes sense, but part of progression involved levelling up to unlock new things to get. The noexp command lets a person scripting all day at level 15 get gold farmed. So that command makes it easy to play hardcore for a while and get 1 mil gold, mastered the best skills and just buy loads of rares with sheer spending power. I think level restricted gear shouldnt be the answer but you want something fun to level up and get


Last edited by Davairus on Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dogran
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Joined: 13 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:54 pm    Post subject:

Interesting thought, usually speaking the whole reason I go caballed is for longer sanc than purples. It'd a trade off for having to defend a cabal item. If I didn't have them, I would make less cabal characters. I don't know about anyone else, but that's a foundation even if I am playing a self sufficient class in something with sanc.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:01 pm    Post subject:

I think the cabal powers should be catering specifically towards whatever the cabal is trying to do. It makes sense to give Knights a mount to run around all day and reduce damage taken from evils, it makes sense to give Justices guards. It makes sense in principle to give cabal players easier access to sanc potions (so they can focus on their role), just not so sure why that means better sanc potions. We could have instead done "raider potion" that just adds prot creature vs cabal guardians
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Stiehl26



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 691

PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:32 pm    Post subject:

To be honest, longer Sancs shouldn’t really be the primary reason to join a cabal.
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Resatimm
Takes the Cake


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 980

PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:10 am    Post subject:

lol Stiehl26 I was just gonna say...

That's like being a Knight because you like riding stallions to conserve MV
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kento
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Joined: 03 Nov 2004
Posts: 338

PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 2:34 am    Post subject:

No, Nadrin is right, longer sanc, ESPECIALLY for classes that do not have sanc and have to rely on 2 tick purples, is a huge deal, and is a huge draw for vets to have that convenience while still having to defend, and I actually feel similar. Like Dav, said, it is a huge edge, but it is also a huge edge that will make cabals less attractive.

Also, stallions ARE really great. Dismissing these out of hand because it's not how you play isn't fair or constructive considering we are talking about people being allowed to play the game in different ways.

If you looked at the gold spent, I am sure you would see insanely more spent on gambling than on defenders except for maybe one character, which isn't to say that the two shouldn't be decoupled. I definitely hoard gold for when I am ready to gamble or maybe for when I get full looted next. AC on these sets might be a game changer for some things, but it isn't going to replace gambleds by any means, which is a huge driver of our economy.


Edited by Nadrin, don't out peoples characters on the forum.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 06, 2021 3:41 am    Post subject:

Well the defender potion is in a special class of its own, being that it is a consumable you can just buy 10 of any time, and way better than purples (it typically lasts 4-5 times longer than a sanc from a purple). I didnt mean to derail thread talking about defender potions. I guess it seems like a bigger deal than gambling to me because I've been picking up and eating the overlord drops everybody leaves on the ground. P.S. Thanks for all the free 2 damroll rings and amulets. They were yummy.
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