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Paladin's patch
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject: Paladin's patch

Hey guys, I think I may have time to get in some paladin updates for this patch

Here is the proposal:

A a simple specialization that is decided at level 15 (will mirror dark-knight spec level). Paladins will spec as follows, according to ethos. This is not at all unlike the hindu god system of a creator, preserver and destroyer.

The paladin specs by picking their ethos via taking an "OATH". This choice supercedes whatever crap was chosen at creation so it amounts to giving a chance to change the characters direction.

these are the oaths:

oath of protection

You swear to serve the greater good and the law. You can longer lie or cheat, and you must aid and protect the weak, but you must also treat others fairly, be fearless, do as much good with the least amount of harm, and most importantly, be responsible for your acts.

oath of preservation

You swear to protect natures beauty and side with the Light against the Darkness. You are kind, merciful and forgiving, and you fight against those who ruin all that is good and beautiful. Basically, do good, fight evil, cheer up sad pandas.

oath of vengeance

You swear to fight evil at all costs. You'll fight the great evil over less evils, win by any means necessary, and show no mercy to sworn enemies. However, you will also provide restitution to those that have been hurt by your enemies. You're a badass, but noble at heart.


how these would correct your ethos

lawful paladin -> protector
neutral paladin -> preserver
chaotic paladin -> avenger



protector : tanking focused paladin, he will be the best tank in the game (however paying for that in damage). probably a shield user.
preserver: healing focused paladin, what he does best is keep healing
avenger: all out pk at the cost of some support. gets flail.


I already have some skills ideas but feel free to throw shit if you see appeal in any of it. This may or may not get introduced, although it has already been in mothballs for a long time and I would like to make a go of it


Last edited by Davairus on Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ceridwel
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Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 3:19 am    Post subject:

I was bummed when pallys lost flamestrike so my first suggestion is bring back some kind of AoE for them.
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2019 10:44 pm    Post subject:

For the tank how about a way to enchant their shield to cause 'thorn' damage, like divine retribution or thorn armor.

The healing one I'd like to see a bit more unique healing spells, maybe one that transfers the paladin's own health to the target making it a bit risky to use but fits the theme of giving one's self to preserve.

And the pk one, a 'holy' swing ability, its like swing, but only really works on evils, gimped or non-effective on neutrals, possibly enhance their wrath to have a chance to dispel magic, like the invoker's fully charged thunder storms? Their god is happy at their relentless faith in purging evil and grants them the ability to nullify evil magic users defensive spells?

Unless strikes do that already, in which cause strikes will be good to use on clerics.
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grant



Joined: 22 May 2014
Posts: 86
Location: Seattle, Washington

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 1:58 am    Post subject:

I'd like to see a staff of healing rework so that it does a group cure. And then give it to preserver paladins.

A retribution-like skill sounds like it fits best on the PK spec paladin honestly, in my opinion. Also sounds awesome.

Tank should get a taunt ability to force target lock on them.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:05 am    Post subject:

Feedback so far has been great. Thanks you guys.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
Posts: 2277

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 2:32 pm    Post subject:

I would like to see a paladin spec with trance
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2019 7:15 pm    Post subject:

I've thought about that for years actually and don't really like. I feel open to the healing spec able to gain mana back if their heal rolls well or something (like top 20% of possible heal rolls). I would prefer to make the concentration stat boost the minimum heal for the paladin as a way to squeeze the most out of their heals. This actually goes for all paladins. There is a bunch of gear with concentration on it which dovetails well with holy armor. This feels more cohesive. I don't feel it will be completely necessary to refund all mana for every spec but it does make sense for preservation spec. I do think the scarcity of paladin mana is a defining trait of the class and I would prefer the approach of just get more out of those mana points. That is an equivalent buff to mana regen while also keeping anti-mana skills (like energy drain) very effective. That makes it useful for a DK (kind of an anti-thesis of a paladin) to use against paladins, as opposed to that being trivialized because trance is insurmountable. It should be more interesting strategy
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:10 am    Post subject:

OK
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 1:32 am    Post subject:

Has anyone ever actually used energy drain effectively in pk? It's a mal spell and everyone who would use it is going to face a high mal-save-wearing opponent.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 2:18 am    Post subject:

yes i have seen some of the best paladins to grace AR taken down by it
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 5:41 pm    Post subject:

I was recently looking at some of the AD&D 2nd Edition books I have, and for some reason I was looking at the Legends and Lore book in particular. In the section on Egyptian mythology, priests of Horus are basically chaotic good paladins (in a game where paladins are otherwise exclusively lawful good). Priests of Horus, like Horus himself, are likely to avenge the deaths of family members... Also, I might imagine the chaotic good paladin path as being one which has a stronger turn undead spell than the others perhaps...

The chaotic paladin would definitely be more offensive than the other two.

The neutral paladin is likely to be balanced (I am not sure how I would picture them...), with neither greater offensive capacity (like a stronger turn undead spell or whatever) nor a greater tanking capacity (in the case of a lawful paladin perhaps). I would think the neutral paladin is more likely to be focused on healing.

Another thing which comes to mind... It might be interesting to have some sort of channeled move for paladins (the idea I am thinking of is inspired by the sword of the sun from AD&D, where swinging the sword continuously overhead for multiple consecutive rounds makes the sword do more damage to the undead). A channeled trance to regain mana like a monk's healing, possibly at a slight cost of movement points, might be a thought too.
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Kedaleam
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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 6:46 pm    Post subject:

I'd be curious what the plan would be as a lawful shield wielding paladin against any sort of warrior using two weapons and barraging. Could give them some sort of blessing or Sacred Shield ability to help protect against it.
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Dogran
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2019 5:33 am    Post subject:

This is really appealing. I would like to see holy armor do more though, like give additional buffs. Maybe based on the type of armor you are wearing, IE heavy armor providing an inherent break at certain levels?
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 9:34 am    Post subject:

I dont really care too much about holy armor, do you? Honestly, it seems like it is just adding a forgettable AC rating. We know AC matters but its pretty meh. I had felt it might be interesting if the avenger gets considerably downgraded in the amount of rare items they are allowed to use. I guess that could buy you a holy armor buff . I was just looking for something with a bit more oomph than that. Something that makes the guy fighting you think "Ah damn it, what is the point fighting with this unrared goody-two-shoes idiot" .. not to much to kick the guys ass all over the map though. An affbreak for consistent heavenly wrath might do the job a little better?
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Dogran
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 12:36 pm    Post subject:

I could see that going over real well, but Paladins need the armor buff, maybe if wrath did more than just damage with a small chance at cursing? Maybe give it stacks, and at 5 stacks it dispels or something. With the huge lag wrath has that wouldn't be OP.
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:38 pm    Post subject:

I mostly like holy armor where it is, however it would be nifty if an avenger lost holy armor and in it’s place could be holy fire. Something that is a damage per round against evils.

I don’t think that should be based on ethos though.
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Dogran
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:04 pm    Post subject:

Or maybe replace holy armor with holy aura and have different auras for effects that combo with wrath or reckoning
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Kornhole



Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Posts: 370
Location: Melbourne, Florida

PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:56 pm    Post subject:

I am for the idea of specialization, but I always thought it was done through gear, and skill use choices. I am the kind of player that likes to utilize underwhelmed strategies (all flying machines in wc3 for instance). I just don't want the link of ethos to specialization to make certain strategies fuxed. What if I want to go the "healer" or "tank" ethos (for gear or RP reasons), but want to PK? Just my two cents, a hill of beans is probably worth more.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 10:06 pm    Post subject:

idea for preserving paladin is to cast a water shield overhead which is a hose or hydrant (with a capacity of hp) that absorbs aoe damage in that room. this to protect groupmates from fireballs and other fire spells. great for your treant tank
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 6:51 pm    Post subject:

is this still coming live in the 'April' patch?
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