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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 18 hours, 9 mins.

Revise incentive to full loot for cabal currency / relics
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Olyn
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3244
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:15 pm    Post subject:

I'm not as active in the pk scene as I used to be, but I rarely loot more than gold, consumables, and eq I will actually use unless it's personal.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 10:35 pm    Post subject:

The cabal supplies is a legit concern. Defenders are not cheap. If you're not playing a class that provides its own aura, you're going to want to load up on cabal currency to purchase those potions which means you're going to full loot because the natural generation of cabal currency cannot keep pace with your expenditure if you play for any solid chunk of time per day.

I think one solution that would not mess with the sacrifice dynamic too much is increasing the supply of cabal currency. If there are other active ways to farm cabal currency then the need to loot for currency diminishes.
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:22 pm    Post subject:

That’s kind of what I was getting at when I made the cabal economics thread. Something to make currency more palatable.

I’ve been on a crypto kick lately. Somebody implement blockchains and relic mining or something.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:11 am    Post subject:

What do you mean defender potions are not cheap? They are like 70 ish. That is cheap as fuck. You can get that without doing anything by just playing 30 mins on 2 days. And you can get it going before 50. If you played enough hours to keep rares in a given month, you would have 10 defender potions for doing jack shit. Somehow you think defenders incentivies you to full loot

Greed
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:43 am    Post subject:

Defender potions are objectively better than purple potions. And defender potions give a significant edge over purples for pk. So cabal players who are dependent on consumables will place a very high premium on defender potions.

1 defender every two days? Are you kidding me? If you want active pk, you're going to need to consume your consumables. Especially with the way some of the most successful pkers play (where they run at 80% hp to reset if the initial round doesn't go their way) you might blow through 10 defenders in a two hour span of gameplay pk.

You seem to be coming back to this "greed" idea but missing the basic economics of the situation. The ways to get cabal currency by "doing nothing" are nowhere near sufficient to satisfy the demand for cabal currency needed to keep a warrior or other consumable-reliant class. The only other way to generate that currency is to loot. While this is a positive incentive to pk, I have already stated my contention that full looting has an overall negative effect on the pk rate.

If there were other ways to generate cabal currency in addition to looting, then consumable-heavy classes would be able to carry an adequate level of consumables without necessarily full looting every person they come across. The more consistently there are players decently-equipped and prepared to fight, the more fighting there will be.

For clarity on how you are thinking about all these cabal and currency dynamics, here are some questions that just take a yes or no answer:

(1) Is the fundamental purpose of cabal currency generation to generate more pk?
(2) Is the fundamental purpose of cabal currency generation a tool to get players to play more?
(3) Do you think that cabal players currently have adequate access to consumable supplies to support 6 hours of active gameplay per week (by your count, three defender potions per week)?
(4) Are the various special currencies perks that should be scarce?
(5) Are the various special currencies actual currency (i.e. store of value, and unit of account)?
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:02 am    Post subject:

Blow through ten defenders in two hours? Ergorion that is simply being sloppy and squandering your resources. When I was playing 50's I would find myself considering whether the opponent was worth even using a purple potion. Very typically wasn't. There is no requirement to use a defender potion especially when most fights are completely mismatched and over with in 10 rounds (a tick). That is your own mistakes to just plough through 10 per hour and have nothing left to use. Defender potions are incredibly overkill and the alternatives are easily gained . Wouldnt surprise me to learn our cabal players were trying to use them for Winter runs. I can see from the fact I have already answered some of your questions that you are not listening anyway so I'm done. "If there were other ways to generate cabal currency in addition to looting" - I've stated them multiple times
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:39 am    Post subject:

I am listening and I am hearing mixed messages with no firm policy basis. That's why I asked yes or no clarifying questions.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:16 am    Post subject:

All of these system are designed with the same purpose in mind which is feed it back into the system and hopefully have an amplifying effect. So for example if you roleplay with the heralds, you get chips, you buy a wardrobe and then you suit up so you can sit around and roleplay more with the Heralds in your fancy attire. There is no way to turn Herald chips into defender potions.

I think it should be clear what the intention was when you see you get a trickle cabal currency for pk'ing and sacrificing rares. Its the spoils of war. You have to understand that a cabal's mission is something to be taken very seriously. You dont sign up to be a Knight to just be some friendly neighbourhood speedbump, and you don't sign up to Legion to be chummy with absolutely anybody. Both of these cabals involve going hardcore against difficult competition. Also, saccing the rares is absolutely an idiot move because the items could be handed to your fellow cabal members (it is important that this is given to competent cabal members and not scrubs that will inevitably die and hand the equipment back to the enemy - same goes for handing it over to Heralds, royals) . If you are seeing full looting and it isnt because you are actually a dickhead, it is because your fellow cabal members are either supergeared (doubtful) or they just dont play or suck. If you want a great pk record every month you need to dominate the playing field and that takes more than just landing blindness and picking on newbies for cake pk's. If you want eq back after doing that consistently for months consider going to some counselling because that wont happen and it is insane to think it will
100% of the time, if Conundo died in north square today with people around, he will get fully looted vulched and whatever it takes to unload his entire inventory down to the last bat wing. And he will be back geared a week later. I made a tweak that is good for cabals and helps keep the lower level pk'ing competitive
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 474

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 5:03 am    Post subject:

Wasn’t there a change that severely nerfed high level rares on lowbies?
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Matrix



Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 159

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 8:19 pm    Post subject:

enabling defender potions obviously leads to a situation where all available resources are pumped into defender potions because whoever has them dominates if nobody else has them. So as soon as one person is using defender potions everyone else has to use them to compete unless they innately have the sanctuary spell. They're the most valuable item in the game PERIOD. This is an obvious consequence of making an item available that's that much better than every alternative. They last longer and are harder to dispel than any other form of sanctuary. They're equal to a level 50 caster casting the spell in duration, intensity, and difficulty to dispel.

It doesn't matter what they cost and it doesn't matter how hard it is to get. As soon as one person spends that cost the other players are required to match the ante or just give up and die.

This is so blindingly obvious that every single person who doesn't find this obvious should be deeply ashamed of themselves.

The only consumables in the history of AR that have been on par with defender potions are the cabal wands of self healing and potions of haste.

I took this item out, I did it for damn good reasons, and I was always the asshole for removing it. Well you have it back now so enjoy it dumbasses
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:46 pm    Post subject:

OK if you guys seriously want a cabal currency/consumables tweaking, start up a patch forums topic properly, and lets get some solutions going, I won't ignore that and we can have this entire thing resolved in literally 10 days from now. its not like anybody has a lot else to do. I was going to work on the druid consumables but i can put that off a few months longer and do cabals. theres more value to work there. The thing is nothing productive is going to come out of a thread of beta cucks complaining about full loots and complaining everything is broken with no solutions and nobody listens
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Matrix



Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 159

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:13 am    Post subject:

the solution is remove defender potions, anything else is a waste of time. If it's easier to get the currency pumped into potions you'll just make purples totally obsolete for cabal members and make cabals overpowered

you'll have plenty of time to ponder this, the conspiracy network says national lockdown in usa on sunday night
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:57 pm    Post subject:

Low blow Dav and completely unnecessary.
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Phostan
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Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 332

PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:53 pm    Post subject:

beta cucks is pretty hilarious though.
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