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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 9 hours.

Should Keepers exist?
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Esivole
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Joined: 21 May 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:20 am    Post subject:

borderlands style, lootsplosion.
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Kalist19
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Joined: 19 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:20 am    Post subject:

Erlwith I’m just curious, were you a human healer knight that could be summoned to fight at will? Did you have to fight any keepers who were great at PK? Were you able to pick and choose who you fought, when you fought them, and where? These are just questions - as I said before, I have no idea who plays whom.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:50 am    Post subject:

I have not personally seen Keepers becoming a huge problem for Knights, they would end up getting anathema if they raid repeatedly (basically the same as being evil). It does not look that way to me.
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hamsandwich



Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 241

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:18 am    Post subject:

Kalist is right that there isn't as much benefit to killing a Keeper, which is a problem that it looks like might be fixed soon.

But I have to agree more with Merlandox and say between thieves and keepers, thieves are WAY more anti-fun.

At least with Keepers you have to actually lose a fight for them to sac your shit. Not just get blackjacked by some annoying ass thief. It seems like their RP is always the same too: irritating. They get off on pissing people off. That's like the definition of anti-fun.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:48 am    Post subject:

I think we have seen a bit of resurgence of thieves because I relieved the super frustrating adrenaline mechanics. So some of this is "culture shock" now. Beyond that, thieves would not be very much of an issue if the poison tea thing (i.e. counter to being blackjacked and backstabbed) wasn't removed from the game. There was also a counter to that, but most thieves didnt know it.
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Dogran
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:25 am    Post subject:

Are you sure that is accurate as far as anathema? For a while there, keepers were always taking knight item, and they never got anathema because of it. Something to look at.
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:26 am    Post subject:

i mean this is a pk mud right, not a rare hoarding mud. What is wrong with killing a keeper if he number 2 on the leader board.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:16 am    Post subject:

Nadrin, the Knight anathema flag is placed manually by the leader of Knights, and it sounds like they're not making Keeper anathema. All I see Keepers doing is mostly just go get the Legion item back because Knights capped the item while no Legions were playing. That's by design, we Imms made sure the pendulum swings on purpose for item capping. Offline item capping is bullshit anyway.
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Erlwith



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:00 am    Post subject:

storm giant healer knight and human healer kalist. i actually found neutrals to be more straight forward and easy to fight in general. You're not worrying about necros or shaman! It was more of a melee skirmish in those cases. basic, not many frills, no threat at all. at one point I think keepers had a mount that made them move super fast if I remember? that was tricky, but other than that i think the biggest neutral threat was stone* giant berserker who are easy to just calm because they don't often wear saves against healers. this was before druids tho.

Last edited by Erlwith on Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:24 am    Post subject:

A neutral is not going to steamroll a healer.

If anything Keepers need a buff. Although a gnome invoker could be OP.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:49 am    Post subject:

Maybe instead of Keeper needs deleting, Legion needs subtle buffs, and then you wouldn't have OP keepers. Everyone knows about the abduct. That's actually cheesy and favors powerhouse classes a lot. I'm going to talk about a Legion power we had because its been removed. The best spell they ever had, in my opinion, having four Legions, was the one made you move quietly in any rooms with darkness (i.e. limited autosneak at night mostly) and when it did, it reduced mv costs. That meant not need to use fly scrolls non-stop. It did two things making it useful for every evil character, even avians. It was an interesting compliment to the Knight stallion shit, which obvious prevent sneaking completely. A sneaking fire berserker seemed super intimidating. That gave the cabals an appearance of countenance, a sort of beautiful "all planned" balance about them. Shadow blend. I believe it was called that. It was later changed into something retarded and then disappeared. Groq might remember. If we want to go all-in on art mimicking life, they'd get a straight-foward power that allows them to attack in the town anonymously and then fuck off again without being flagged.
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Lorne
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:42 am    Post subject:

I agree with most of all Kalist has said, sometimes it's even boring playing a keeper. I think there was pendulum swing changes so it's a bit more active. Having played a few Keepers they are the anti-fun cabal.

As Kalist has alluded to, I rather have 4 large cabals then 5 smaller ones. It's great when you get that perfect 1v1, where you and your opponent are equally skilled and the fight can last for hours or continue for days and weeks.

But the most fun I've had in AR are in big group fights, 3v3, 4v4 etc., having wars, that was the best. Group tactics just bring a whole new dimension to the fight and it's always some of the best PVP battles ever.

I also think the entire Keeper mentality is kinda flawed. So they are the ones that are suppose to take out the big bad boys when they get too powerful. What happens when the Keeper cabal is dominant? What happens when the Top 5 players are Keepers or one of them become KING/QUEEN. Do other keepers turn on them? Do they have to go suicide to keep the "balance" of the realms? Reminds me of that movie Wanted.
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hamsandwich



Joined: 08 Jan 2019
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:43 pm    Post subject:

Group fighting is way more fun, you're right.

Even if it's still a bit lopsided, I'd rather fight at a 2v3 disadvantage than a 1v2.

But with that being said, we all have to appreciate that that is also a function of Keepers right now. If there are 2 Legions logged on and a poor Knight, then Keepers will jump in and even the odds. So in that sense the Keeper cabal actually exists to create group fights. So we've got to give the cabal credit for that.

Also, maybe this is just because I suck at this game so I haven't experienced it, but don't Keepers not really attack "powerful" people anymore? I mean maybe they attack the King/Queen but that is literally 1 person and they can probably handle the attention so...
I'm pretty sure they do not attack people for having "too many" rares like they used to, which was annoying af.

So mostly they are just around to even out team fights, which is a positive?
And they are around to move around cabal items after they've been offline capped, like Dav said. Which all that really does is make it kind of senseless for Knight or Legion to ever take the other's item (to a point) and prevent anyone from logging in to no item.

So I feel inclined to say that it isn't necessarily the function of Keepers that people are having issue with. It's the full looting that they have issue with (which any other cabal is perfectly capable of doing as well) and the lack of being able to loot anything back (unique to Keepers)

So the big fix? Lootsplosions.
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Vevier
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:51 pm    Post subject:

If an item is removed from the vault for every rare item in the vault, maybe saccing the keeper item (or taking it somewhere for an exchange) could turn into that item. Sure some of it would be swiftbirds, but better than nothing? That might also offer incentive to keepers not to kit out fully in their equipment in case of full loot.
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Bladefury

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:00 pm    Post subject:

Didnt bother to read comments or who even posted this. You're wrong if you think keepers dont play a integral role to balance serin.
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