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orc race discussion moved from wishlist

 
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:24 pm    Post subject:

Those stats on the orc are too powerful even with (or perhaps due to) it being medium size. Comparable strength and constitution to a minotaur (only slightly less constitution, 22 vs 23, and identical strength), almost identical dexterity to a human (19 instead of 20, or 21 if the human chooses dexterity which is unlikely), identical intelligence to a minotaur (17), 17 wis is better than a fire giant but worse than a minotaur (15 fire, 18 minotaur).

The highest strength medium race that I recall was 22 strength dwarves back in 2010 and earlier.

TL:DR: those stats are too strong.
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 6:26 pm    Post subject:

PS. The high dexterity allows for better dirt kick while also giving the race giant-like stats in the case of the berserker. That is my second objection on top of a 23 strength medium-sized race.
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twerpalina

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2021 9:15 pm    Post subject:

I based the stats off the stat summary. I suppose 22 str would be a bit more balanced, Orcs are hands down the strongest medium-sized race in Serin imo.

Their dex cant be too low either because they are mutated from elves and live a lifestyle of ransacking and running.
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BlackWidow



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:04 pm    Post subject:

Another point: light vulnerability isn't a big deal. There are very few weapons which do light-based attacks (the only one which might matter really is a strong bow with Belrak's arrows, and both classes you listed can deal with arrows just fine)... Blessed weapons from Tainted Valley (besides the pike) which are average 17 (maybe 16 in the case of the claw from the Paladin) are crap, and the hammer of enlightenment is also crap (15 avg, 35 pounds and oversized). Sunfire is now fire based damage, same with Arghon's sword. The only spells I can name which do light-based damage off the top of my head are radiance (only vengeance paladins have that afaik), maybe hellstream (I think that's arcane though), and a druid's sun blast. I'm not sure if prismatic spray or colour spray is light-based but I'm sure you get my point.
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Vevier
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 3:14 pm    Post subject:

This is out of order because of the way threads have to be split but here is a copy of the wishlist topic that started this discussion.

Code:
Orcs were originally crafted by the Dark Gods from fallen elves as a poor
imitation of the Elven race.  After generations of in-breeding and
corruption, very little of their original elven heritage remains.  Before
the Great War, orcs grew into a considerable horde.  Being deprived from
natural resources and running out of space due to the ever-growing
population, they invaded the nearby elven city, Greginsham in order to
expand their territories.  After the Great War finished, Orcish horde was
cut down in size marginally and now they mainly inhabit the Greginsham ruins
and the surrounding mountains while carrying out occasional raids on
wealthier villages in Serin.

Orcs are taller than humans and often deformed or misshapen.  Their skin
color varies from a pale gray or yellow to dark mottled colors and is often
pock-marked or scabrous.  They are thick-browed and remarkably strong
despite having wiry limbs.  As with other races, there are variations in
appearance among clans, some being hairless, some with tusks, etc.  Orcs are
cunning but woefully stupid, strong but cowardly, and use pure brute
strength in plowing through their opponents.
Greed, fear, and rage drive the writhing brain of the Orc.

Living in squalor since the time of their creation, Orcs have a strong immune
system and can eat things that would poison a Human, with no ill affects.
However, as creatures of darkness, Orcs can see clearly without
light but are easily damaged by light-based attacks.  All Orcs are evil and
are too quarrelsome and bestial to ever be orderly in nature.

Immune: Disease/Poison
Vuln: Strong Light, Weak Holy
Resist: Weak Weapon/bash/slash/pierce

Size: Medium
Align: Evil, Chaotic only

Classes: Berserker, Shaman
Str: 23 Int: 17 Wis: 17 Dex: 19 Con: 22



Compared to Minotaur's: STR: 23, INT: 17, WIS: 18, DEX: 17, CON: 23 but medium size instead of large (removing ability to wield oversized weapons).

Considering its a bit of a nerfed version of a giant (not large size for bodyslam bonus) and mental vuln weapons are almost non-existant, there's still a ton of light weapons and holy weapons for paladins and alike to be enough threat for Orcs not to become too OP.
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twerpalina

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:22 pm    Post subject:

BW, how many weapons do mental attacks towards giants? There's some pretty nice weapons for goodies that do "rays" damage that you didnt list btw. Also, colour spray is a light spell. That's more than we have for mental for sure.

I think its not going to be an issue, the issue instead seems to be that if you want to make an evil berserker your go to choice is fire giant, sometimes minotaur. Why? Because they are just a superior choice to medium-sized races and not many people wanna be a gimp berserker without flavor.

Str 22 would be fine, but leave rest of the stats as they are. You got elves who got turnt into orcs who spend their life on their feet, they can't be slow.
They are stupid, but you can't really be as stupid as a giant, that's like a special case of retardation. Wisdom is also lower than Minotaur, because they have lower life expectancy. Con is 22 because while not as sturdy as giants/dwarves, they spend their whole life growing up the in orc clans with "might makes right" attitude, getting beat up daily. Natural selection, evolution. High con.
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twerpalina

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 4:26 pm    Post subject:

Also, we have to keep the race competitive, so they wont just be cast off in favor of other stuff. For an example, Treant was a great idea, so was Jotun, but they just feel too gimped with pierce and fire vuln that the pros dont really outweight the cons, so they kinda died off after the initial hype faded.

Light vuln is a reasonable vuln, anything more and its Treant vol 2.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:26 pm    Post subject:

orc is already a custrace so you can play it with reputable account if you pick the right ethos/align/race which should be in help orc
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