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The event "The Assault on Taekir" is beginning in 1 day, 12 hours.

Necromancers.
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Bladefury

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Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:26 pm    Post subject: Necromancers.

they are trashtastic now, can we please get some reformation on them so i can roll around sleeping you fools again.
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Xenyar
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Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 596

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 1:23 pm    Post subject:

Blade, you are 100% correct. They were completely retooled and utterly destroyed. My favorite class, down the drain. And nobody plays them anymore.
Apparently Resatimm(out of all people, ironic yes?) was allowed to fuck the class up, and Dav went along with it by giving him a hand.
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Bladefury

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:01 pm    Post subject:

it's the worst class hands down. and it's one of my favorites to play and one of the only strictly caster classes i'll play. they destroyed the ability to keep an army after hours of getting said army. they destroyed the ability to find decent zombies because well you find 1 they nerf the fuck out of it. they ruined the class entirely and it's mind boggling.
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Stiehl26



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 691

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 2:40 pm    Post subject:

Yeah landing a 1 hit instant kill was challenging. Sleep, massive mal dump, then unleash level 51 mobs on someone while they are blind, etc..tough day at work. Perhaps they were nerfed beyond playability but they were way to strong before. I’m sure you could work with the Imm staff to help make it right.
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
Posts: 920
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 3:14 pm    Post subject:

Do you even comprehend how long it takes to prep for that Stiehl? We are talking about 2-3 hours of prep to have a chance of being competent at pvp. Mind you, the best Necro's to date have been during the months with peak server population and none of them went undefeated. There hasn't been a scary necro in months and with the changes there will never be one again. Its warrior or invoker these days, everything else is just cannon fodder.
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Bladefury

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:50 pm    Post subject:

anything i say stiehl will disagree with, but yes beia is right i could spend easilt 2-3 real life hours just prepping for an army hoping 1) nobody comes and dumps on me and i can escape or keep my army alive. 2) I don't fail a large amount of times, and i don't mean just maybe 1 or 2 im talking tons of times. It can literally drive you mad trying to raise a troll. 3) now i got my army after 3 hours of nobody here fucking with me now i wait 5 MORE HOURS for nobody in my pk to show up at all and i quit out. army gone restart process.
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Bladefury

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2022 4:53 pm    Post subject:

also if you haven't learned how to run around blind in an area even summoned then idk what to tell you. Generally if im summoned and blind i will run in every direction until i hear a creature talk then i figure out where i am based off that. there are other tricks but meh.
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:05 am    Post subject:

You guys are really oversimplifying this. The nerf took place because someone purposefully logged in like 4 hours before people normally logged on so they would have ample peaceful time to prep their army.

It would be really interesting if that same necro with 3 skeletons logging in at the middle of peak play time would be as successful.

I can't imagine wanting to play for 5 straight hours grinding for an army finally getting it and then some dope logs in and you kill him in 20 seconds with 0 challenge because u put in 5 hours worth of work.
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Xenyar
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Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 596

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 2:35 am    Post subject:

If it makes you feel any better Ozaru, Illyiza was me. I was going to be successful with that necro with full prep time or not. Just how it is.
And yes, they brought plenty of nerfs to the necro...more than is even mentioned or discussed.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:26 am    Post subject:

Well the thing is, necros were buffed last patch. did we see anything in the last 3 months that has indicates they need another buff? like, they just got harvest flesh golem healing.. sleep blocking trance? zombies could reasonably last longer if they did not hit as hard, and that is precisely the strength damned trade-off, not sure I understand the fascination with making sure necro's zombies are as overpowered as possible. here's what you need to hae fun with a necro. basically, a variety of as many mindless followers as possible (zombies, skeletons, golems, etc), summon/sleep, and soul capture. everything else going on is just dps. I am not convinced they need massive DPS from zombies with rend life hitting so damn hard -- and keep in mind, all the work I did on psis, has me plenty aware of how easy necros have had it. that was a 500 xp class running around with 0 xp quite frankly.
read the death grasp note and take note of the effort to reduce the monotony being made. thats how the old imps tried to balance this class. make it monotonous to play it so it gets avoided. e.g. fail animate over and over. they definitely didnt want you to get to 50 and figure out you can kill decked characters with just a cursed training sword
i would like to see raising zombies result in characteristically different zombies instead of just you guys figuring out from trial and error what the most damage possible zombie and get three of those. why cant zombies be as different as flesh and stone golem? like get a bear zombie for a tank etc. get some tiger zombies for damage. every single necro getting 3 innkeepers for triple divine power just completely blows
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Xenyar
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Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 596

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:36 am    Post subject:

Did you fix vamp touch? It cost 1000 mana on nymphs for 300 hp in return. Revert the lvl based healing from vamp touch. It's nonsensical having to vamp touch a level 45 creature for decent hp returns. That creature will deal more damage to the necro than what he gets in healing.
Did you revert pointless blowing up zombies?
Did you revert being able to cast sleep back to back on the same opponent?
Did you revert some of the...blah I'll just stop there... This is pointless, per usual.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:58 am    Post subject:

No but I can recommend a good therapist to talk that through with
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Xenyar
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Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 596

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 4:07 am    Post subject:

So completely fucking up a class, then adding a new spell, doesn't mean shit.. absolutely nothing. That's just ignoring and redirecting from the root problem.

Thanks for the hard work on psi's. Now put that effort into fixing necros. Might as well remove the class at this point. It's garbage. That's 100% on you guy.
That's your failure that you are OK with.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 5:14 am    Post subject:

Ever hear the term "turkey shoot"? logging in an hour before a surge, casually gaining zombies and prepping for bottom feeding on whoever happens to login, until the mud is totally empty, that'd qualify.
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Bladefury

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Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:07 pm    Post subject:

okay but isn't the game supposed to be fun for players? you're ignoring some of the huge points that xenyar has brought up, IF you simply made it so zombies don't explode i can work around everything else. but you literally just took all my hard work and said fuck you it's gone anyway with that change. Im gonna die on this hill with xenyar idk anyone else who even plays necro besides us.
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twerpalina

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Joined: 16 Mar 2018
Posts: 307
Location: Utrecht, Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:08 pm    Post subject:

tl;dr i cant really compete in any conventional way so please bring back my 1 button kill cheese.
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Bladefury

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Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 12:15 pm    Post subject:

omg who would have guessed you'd come here to try and insult me, Hows that HoE doing? oh wait. don't get this moved to wasteland. Im sincerely trying to invest in necromancer refurbishing
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1073

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 1:39 pm    Post subject:

give them everything they want, but if they fail sleep the necromancer is in a trance and cannot move for the same duration as their would be sleeping target. Because if you are going to grind for 4 hours for a 20 second kill you should be able to grind for four hours with the risk of a 20 second death.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10344
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 3:56 pm    Post subject:

if you guys have good ideas (that make sense on necromancers) i would be a fool to turn it down, right, if it needs a buff or a tweak and the class is UP then why wouldnt we do it? just keep in mind theres a course correction where the class isnt uber survivability soloing winter anymore. they are mages. and that generally means squishy, high damage, lots of fun from stunts and gimmicks. not an ‘overlord’ all powerful class. balanced
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 470
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2022 11:06 pm    Post subject:

Well I will say one thing: in the past 12 years (the entire time I've been here), three old classes were added back (monk, druid, psionicist) which had been removed for various reasons. If necromancers were too powerful and there was no way to deal with them, I'm sure they could've been removed just as easily.

Putting that aside, I have a thought regarding necromancers which may have been voiced in the past involving a new spell. The spell summons a horde of wraiths or spectres based on how many charmie slots you have available. They do not stay permanently, and have a much shorter duration of stay than zombies or skeletons, but can potentially be called more often. I could see it being possible to sacrifice one of the creatures to regain health instantly. Something like a combination of the razor strings spell and some stuff I've seen elsewhere.
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