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berserker updates: mania, rage, relax
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Abandoned Realms



Joined: 23 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:42 pm    Post subject: berserker updates: mania, rage, relax

Some more changes to come, but I'm waiting until the new skill
has been experienced and feedback received.

Mania - A battle frenzy for berserker, its like a personal mini-haste. (It
does not stack with haste or share its half movement/half regen "bonus")
Relax - Chance to succeed is doubled if the berserker makes a mental save,
although only if they dont have mania in affect.
Rage - no longer wears off after kills if mania is up

Forum feedback welcome.
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beia



Joined: 18 Mar 2006
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Location: Texas

PostPosted: Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:55 pm    Post subject:

Give them haste, that will solve everything. Wait also make Berserkers unable to be calmed or tamed! Brilliant! Time to roll a Fire Giant Zerker and destroy everyone.
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Faelon
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:15 am    Post subject:

Wager you a dollar that isn't going to happen.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:34 am    Post subject:

The calm mention there is a brainfart actually. Calm still does what it does to berserkers. There was no reason why the calm spell shouldn't keep on doing that. Its just an error in the actual change note.


This skill is kinda how I imagine a rage skill really should be, so if we can't balance that we really shouldn't have invested time in making a berserker class. I've little concern of stacking rage/mania to stop tame, considering how shitty rage actually is at this point, but let me know if you think it deserves a drawback. Personally I'm very happy with mania. I already have three new skill ideas that all seem good that follow from mania. Whereas with rage all I can do really is poke it and make it worse (almsot always)
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Ozaru



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:08 am    Post subject:

why do you think rage is shitty? A guy fighting a zerker can think oh wow he's missing everything then all of a sudden ===oblit===
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beia



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 7:39 am    Post subject:

I like the auto attack with rage, you don't even have to murder, if you are raged and they walk in bam, they are getting hit, perhaps we can add something there, like the person you are raged at pisses you off more and it is guaranteed at hit or something.
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uzume



Joined: 14 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: nice

Already experimented with it love it natural Halsted is super awesome shitty calm can still keep you from rage but does it also keep you from being able to mania?
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Oxyl



Joined: 17 Oct 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:51 pm    Post subject:

So far I like it. Haven't used it in pk yet. Getting stuck in rage is actually not so bad now that we have thunderclash.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 9:01 am    Post subject:

I preferred mania to be more meant for dual wield, so I've lowered the chance of it coming out and improved the chance of making the dual wield attack when it does come out. This causes an overall damage loss since there's no offhand enhanced damage, and that means I'm not looking into making other damage nerfs until I have observed it a little more. I will be looking for logs later on to see if the skill needs any more tuning than this.
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:43 pm    Post subject:

I really need to stop deleting for reason that you fix a few days later. The amount of times this has happened is scary.
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Nycticora



Joined: 09 Feb 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 10:57 pm    Post subject:

Ozaru, if you delete early it should be because your character was compromised or something. Like, you wanted to be a badass but some retard got a lucky kill on you and it messed up your RP. Try not to delete for totally metagame reasons, you will regret it every time. My advice is to let the char inactive if you don't feel like playing it.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:07 am    Post subject:

We might be ok allowing tame to break rage again (ala. calm). BUT, if we do, its going to cost rangers the following. Their "fierce fighting falcon" is hitting way too often because it has too many attack flags on it. In the state the class is currently in, rangers are clearly super strong. If we don't update that, then rangers will be easily outdamaging a dirted no-rage/mania berserker with just 1 pet. Ozaru, I will let you respond.
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Ergorion



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:56 am    Post subject:

Mania should have some cost. It shouldn't be free.

A mana cost. Like 20 mana to mania.

I anticipate the counter argument to be that mania has a cost when it comes to rate but that's weak sauce. Because you do not have to rage with mania. It is so easy to cancel that if you're in a dicey mob area, you can cancel mania to rage.

And if you're raging, those 80 movement points you lose from sleepng to get rid of mania probably aren't going to help you terribly much.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:09 pm    Post subject:

Its drawback is it constantly depletes movement points. Its not just from sleeping. It costs movement points continuously. And of course you can't sleep with rage either. So.. you were saying?

I think it could be cool to have a fury system that is built up by mania (actually by take/receive damage) to the point that you eventually "overheat" and become raged even if you don't intend to, so there's no simply sitting in it permamently. Maybe even make some fury requirements to be able to rage or also use (enhance?) any skills that are clearly berserker-only.. roar,lash,wild smash,defiance. thunderclash. that sort of thing. It might even be an improvement for that flurry skill. Its kind of like chii except you could just not use mania and opt out entirely.. and make anything that was mania-enhanced have additional price of movement points, maybe once you run out of movement points you can move with fury a little bit until you totally run out of that. maybe we also make relax cost movement points, and if you try to relax with no movement points, it requires sufficient fury to stay awake and otherwise you get put to sleep for a while. maybe using a relax with rage/mania should always put you to sleep, and always remove all earned fury points. maybe being in rage would deplete the fury points per hit and unrage you when you're out, so its a quick splurge that leaves you back at square one afterwards.

Thats just spitballing and I dont know whether it would be fun addition to the game or not, but its a thought, and I'm having this thought because you mentioned mana - not the resource I want to have berserkers using, but it could be helpful to have one. A lot of the advice I have seen has been based around being in a larger area and riding out the storm. This kinda helps that approach, like, its actually maybe viable for a thief to try to counterbalance through the rage part, a warrior could reflex through the rage.. a monk could leopard style it.. but the defensive abilities would not be constantly needed. The threat of bodyslam would still mean something, but classes like healers could be using calm to reduce your fury directly, and others can slow you to slow down your attacks and thus your build of fury. Thare actually does open up a lot of nuances. it would no longer be possible to just mania/rage and stomp right off the bat before the fight even starts.
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Ergorion



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:47 pm    Post subject:

I was not aware that being in mania depleted you movement points. It must be insignificant because I did not notice it with my zerker and I was in mania all the time.

It just seems like the benefit of getting an extra attack for free does not matchup with the drawback. Because if you're not a retard, you should be able to avoid the major drawbacks of the mania/rage curse.

Also, why are raged berserkers allowed to quaff potions now?
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:57 pm    Post subject:

I haven't played a ranger since the mania changes were first rolled out, I could take a regular zerker rather easily with tame and the marmalade orb. Granted the zerkers I beat were other warlords and we know tenacity isn't the same thing as sanc and their eq wasn't like voglin had.

To kill a falcon pet for a raged zerker with mania takes about 2 seconds I don't really see that as a problem. Honestly I just save a spot for a bear and keep the boar. Rarely do I use falcons in combat because of how squishy they are. Mind you if you fail tame ur screwed, it doesn't work every single time. I would like to see a way to train it how ever, we have a lot of agro mobs that can't be tamed while some others can which is odd.

Honestly I wouldn't be worried about the falcon, what I would be worried about from a balance stand point is dirt disarm weapon steal. I have honestly wanted to make a ranger just for that but I refuse to go through that god damn circus of a beast adventure and end up with a fucking leopard or what ever you can be now. I want my tiger or wolf and that's it.

I will happily test it for you if I can get a tiger or wolf.
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ramod



Joined: 03 Dec 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:19 pm    Post subject:

Tame on rage is pretty retarded unless you can save against it. If you can't save against it, that should never be a skill for any class to remove the primary skill of a berserker so easily.
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Hrimoyan
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:22 pm    Post subject:

Rangers should beat Beserkers by outplay, not outdamage ...Zerkers should wreck shit left and right, but they shouldn't be able to wreck shit left and right AND chase you down for miles. I like the movement points cost.
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Kato



Joined: 03 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:33 pm    Post subject:

Uh, lorne, that happens all the time for other classes. Claiming that classes shouldn't have counters is just wrong.
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Ergorion



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:04 pm    Post subject:

Yeah. It's the whole rock, scissors deal. Ranger was the one main counter for Zerkers. It just seems like berserkers are increasingly becoming the easy button class.
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