My life begins like any child, born into a world they were not ready for.
My mother and father were adults who believed in one thing and that was
gold. They enjoyed the lavish lifestyle that came with the gold they
obtained. They would lie, cheat, steal and even whore for whatever amount
they could gain. These actions repulsed me to see my parents who I once
admired for the terrible people they truly were. The last day I saw my
parents alive, my mother was working in the brothel of the Unlit city and my
father was standing guard to the queen. The brothel was raided by a group
of pirates and my father was too scared to react. He just stood there as my
mother was ravaged and after the group had, they threw a few pieces of
silver on the floor. My parents flew to the ground fighting each other for
the last of the bounty they so craved. Disgusted with these diseased
wretches, I took out a special dagger that my grand father had passed down
to me and slit both of their throats at the same time. As life slowly left
their bodies I looked at them both and swore an oath to strive for
discipline, law and order. Justice will live forever.
Description:
Subtly and slowly a tall statuesque man appears before you. His every
movement flows like the water in a babbling brook. As your eyes lock, your
heart stops momentarily as the sheer beauty coupled with the unimaginable
cruelty that lies within. His ashen hair falls below his waist revealing
pointed ears and numerous piercings. You notice each earring has a baby's
tooth affixed to each stud. His deep scarlet eyes are framed by a furrowed
brow and ashen eyebrows. His nose is sharp and his nostrils flare with
rage. His mouth is open slightly revealing his upper teeth and a look of
disdain crosses his face. His skin is pale as the moon light and almost
reflects your image. As you lower your gaze, you see his long neck with a
tiny scar just below his jugular. With every concentrated breath he takes
you notice his chest rising and falling. The rhythm is intoxicating and you
cannot help but stare. A deep fear builds within your soul as your gaze
breaks. He disappears to the shadows and a trail of blood is all that is
left behind.
I am sure this comes as no surprise, you guys can take your little circle jerk and enjoy it. Im over your bullshit, being targeted like this is just stupid and a waste of my time.
Ashlyn
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I think a drow justice is interesting if you play it right. The law can suffer from corruption. On the other topic Gangbangs are a part of the game and are bullshit. OOC gangbangs have always been in the game even with a 50+ pbase. You make friends with someone who is badass at the game in game and break it up, or roll something annoying and troll the shit out of them.
Honestly that was just really bad luck for you that two wanted people logged on before another justice logged on.
We were having a good fight 1v1 for about an hour there. I tried compelling a triton and it slaughtered me. I was really worried you would come find me fighting it and kill me instantly.
You really took my by surprise taking advantage of weapon types like that. I'm used to paying attention vs combat style but I haven't really ever thought about weapon type - you made me pay for that.
I didn't have any personal agenda against you (the char or the player, and I didn't know it was you) other than I was wanted and you were a justice. Like I said, it was just bad luck that crimminals logged on instead of justices. It would have been great if you had some backup like Solmundi or Triyan.
Ozaru
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Maybe thats true in your case, but the pbase is pretty small. So when you have one character on chances are they are playing their alt in a different cabal. So here in this case, my guess is either friends of bladefury or friends of Thoom. And even if it is just bad luck I don't play the way these guys do. If I am in a cabal I want 1 v 1 fights because I want the satisfaction of knowing I can either beat this person or they got the best of me.
So for Hamsandwich to say i am a piece of shit drow, I only had interactions with two characters that were unfavorable. One deleted and we know who it is, the other well lets just say his alt or a friend of his got some eq back tonight.
So when I say this isn't fun for me anymore, it really isn't. This game is designed to be as fun and as challenging as you make it and also how the pbase interacts with one another. That is why this game is so unique, but im tired of running into that brick wall and expecting a different result. So good luck to you all, but I am not going to change the way I play and neither will you all.
But when you guys bitch about guardian sitting, or people quitting out and you guys pull this shit you can have it.
hamsandwich
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Bruh I just don't like drow shadow Justice. Doesn't sit right with me that an evil ninja like character can be a Justice, and the rp never convinces me. Not saying you did anything wrong or whatever. Just a personal gripe that I have that has pretty much nothing at all to do with you. lol I shouldn't have been a jerk in my comment. Sorry man.
Definitely have no part of the 3v1 that happened and have no OOC connections.
Kalist19
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I think you have a good point there Ozaru - we don’t really want an environment where people avoid logging in because they don’t want to go up against a gank squad. Maybe the answer is to have more people go justice to create kind of a ‘safe environment’ for people to play in and enjoy. Of course there’s no guarantee that marauding evils/knights won’t go on a rampage but if more of us play that protector role, maybe it would work out. E.g if more of us played justice there’s a good chance you would have had at least some backup.
Davairus
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I think mostly we all like an environment where the perma-grouped OOC gangbangers aren't the imms who literally know who is playing people's characters, who keep powerlevelling together while gangbanging the same guys over and over across all characters. Ozaru's trying to level at a reasonable pace without a ranking train. I'm pretty sure that's the point Ozaru is trying to make. He's feeling harassed across all his characters. That's being said without any "proof" but that doesn't mean it isn't true. What other non-Legions suddenly became huge chums with Zakzaer? He pretty much only logs in at 3am and has no other friends. Meanwhile, Heinrildt has been gangbanging garbage from level 1. Everyone should be able to see that, or if not you'd have to just be dense as fuck. Its a case of the "cool kids". Its much like school bullying. I've levelled up a few times now myself, since March, and seen Imms log off and quickly log on the same niche trash characters and gun for me knowing exactly where I am, with my stream turned off. I make counter-characters to beat them up with and suddenly they never want to log them in. So it isn't really reasonable to reply "well you have no proof". I could post pages and pages of "proof". It is 100% a circle jerk
Davairus
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Thank you for sticking with it Ozaru.
Ozaru
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Wow all I can say is thank you, but I have 0 motivation to log in and put in any effort in this game anymore. You have created a great game and I know it will continue to be successful.
Arunore
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Don't give up Ozaru. I think all or most of us have been in those situations where our enemies conveniently log in back to back. I cannot tell you how many times it has happened to me, but all I can say is, if you die against adversity, at least you had the courage to stand and fight. That goes a long way in a lot of eyes, and then there's the chance of you being victorious. Then the day shall come when you are welcoming 4 v 1's because you know you're at least taking out 3 of them.
Kornhole
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If coincedence, kinda funny. If OOC, bullshit. If OOC because of IMM knowledge of who was behind the character, I hate to say that I am with Ranix, but fuck a place with that kind of bullshit IN CHARGE!?!?!?! Also, humblest apologies to whoever played this toon, and I hate to post on a GY of a character I never even met (Haven't played in two weeks or so, and it seems that was the entire lifespan.) But I feel strongly about this particular point, and could not not voice my opinion.
Vevier
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There seems to be some confusion, which stems both from the way the conversation in this thread has proceeded and also some assumptions from people who are playing/watchig from the sidelines. IMMs don't target players and we especially don't log in to gang them. It didn't happen in this case either, although I can't speak to whether there was coordination on the parts of the players.
I would further caution against basing assumptions on what ranix says, as he is no longer a member of the staff and has shown that his only goal in coming back to this site is to stir up drama and force people to take sides on issues that could otherwise be handled either diplomatically or through discussion that leads to code changes. For an example of this, please see this thread: https://abandonedrealms.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13115 where Dav is proposing to provide the who list before you commit to your login. That would theoretically allow you (as a reasonable player) to see that its already 3v1 favored to your side and choose not to pile on. I have some concerns with this proposal, but please please don't buy into the us vs them mentality he's trying to create. Further discussion of that topic should occur on that thread to preserve the gravestone here, please :).
For specific instances where you think ooc has occurred, providing an inquiry with as much information would allow immortals to follow up on it and see if there is a pattern that needs attention.
Ozaru
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Everything you said is the exact opposite of what Dav said
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Vevier
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Stop breaking posting rules or yellow cards will be issued. Final warning.
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Vevier
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Post removed for violation of the following rules:
DON'T troll.
DON'T bump old dead topics.
DON'T repost posts that have been deleted by the moderators. Fix them first.
Maybe, but it really just depends on the player behind the character. Zak was an obvious legion I am pretty sure the other shaman isn't and not sure about the dkn. But if they were, they could easily say I want him alone. Or Zak could have said to the others stay out or ill kill you. Might makes right not, lets fuck someone over because we can. But again I am spewing my ideals in a game where thats not the mantra here. Its just like life its not fair. You can't make this game anything other than it already is. I always try to make characters that stand alone and provide a good fight and challenge. I never enjoyed outnumbered pk situations cuz its not fun for anyone. I just can't see myself making another character and expecting a different experience than I keep getting.
I don't expect you to believe me, as it seems you are pretty set on what you perceive is correct. Which you have every right.
I also just logged on without any interactions, it just happened to be in the middle of you fighting. I actually logged on and located spiked to see, and saw two pieces hidden so remember you had those two pieces, realized you were probably on.
Like you say, you play the way you want in terms of fighting and rp and others play the way they want. You can't expect other people to rp a certain way just so you can have a "fair" fight. If I logged on and there was 3 Justices, would two of them "back off" for a fair fight? Being ganked is part of cabal warfare, that is reality. You can avoid it by just not joining a cabal and picking your fight whenever you want (ie. Eurayel).
Terrible timing, but really kudos for not being a wimp and coming to defend. I personally would not have taken any equipment (and I didn't loot anything) but not like I can tell others not to.
So you only want 1 v 1 when it’s in your favor, but, let’s say there’s a wanted fire shaman around and gets snared by the commander MOMENTS before you log in and pursue as well. I know it’s the job of justice to hunt criminals, and I know legions are evil and do whatever they want to. But let’s be honest, you’re complaining because it was against you.
I wouldve definitely done the minimal amount to not get slain/kicked from Justice and then quit out on that dispel magic/bodyslam wombo combo
Merlandox
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Why dont you have a 100 mental and mal saves to prevent getting spelled and then survive the onslaught? Guardian sit a little, then wait for them raid the sanctum and sit at the altar defender. Heard it was buffed, so it'll be a great thing to bait them to raid the sanctum and then maybe have a better chance. Before that it's survival bro.
From my limited experience I really really do not think sanctum guardian was buffed. I haven't tried to kill one, but Glorbag invaded on me and I figured I had a little bit of time, especially because the "buff" note. But Glorbag solo killed the guard in less than 3 in game hours. Literally couldn't have got there in time even if I had tried
Ozaru
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So probably the last post Ill be making in a while so I will try and make this as complete as possible. Saves wasn't an issue, titanium tenor allows for easy item slot placement for saves. I wasn't spelled up in the fight, the issue was after fighting both Zak and the dkn in seringale I had to run off. In that time period the fire shaman logs in and they immediately invade. The coordination on that was amazing. So I had a choice, I could have quit out or go and fight. When they invaded I had that same feeling of why am I wasting my time against these targeted ooc groups. So I gave a half hearted effort and just died.
Now for those who are saying my ooc accusations are bullshit, its really disappointing to find out its really imms doing it and what is rather amusing is who is liking Bladfury's posts could you guys be more transparent.
Lastly as far as the guardian, they weren't planning on taking the item, the guardian was my one chance to have an ally and I had limited time before it died. Once the guardian died I'd have 3 people grouped together running around trying to kill me.
Dogran is a duergar shaman, I’m the fire shaman. And stop calling the kettle black. When I was evading you and Solmundi I used the blackened animal skull for mana shield and you literally went OOC saying that I was cheating and that the IMMS were helping me. Because of that crap, an item has been adjusted to not give mana shield (boo) and instead now just does dark shroud. You talk about OOC but from what I witnessed you’ve had your fair share and then complain when someone else does it as if the same rules you are saying the other people break doesn’t apply to you.
Ozaru
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Its cheating when you are exploiting a bug you know shouldn't work. Clearly you are an experienced player, you break rp, and you use a bugged item to save your ass. Once that change happens you stopped playing wonder why. If you want to get into it fine I'll bite.
You played this persona of I am just walking around minding my own business and knights attack me so I defend myself. You had no problem ranking with me, getting eq with me and your circle jerk, and even telling me you killed the guy that killed me when I had to afk. Then all of a sudden you attack me in town for no reason. From everything I read on shamans they have specific rp and can get outcasted by it. Vhrael is a chaotic evil you are a neutral evil how can you be his adept its bullshit. You clearly picked neutral shaman to benefit from orderly equipment. You use a bugged item and don't report it thats bullshit. Whoever designed the blackened animal skull to give 18 charges of mana shield without it draining the users mana pool is stupid and you know it.
The difference between you and I is you are getting benefits from immortals and your circle jerks at the very least own up to it and don't pretend you aren't. Nelrask you and that illusionist form a perma group how many people have access to vamps, hmmmm not many. How many people know the ins and outs of phemos with such ease, my guess not many. So when you stack all of this shit on the table yeah I hold imms and experienced players to a different standard because you have more experience and when you use that ooc circle jerk against players I call bullshit.
If you guys want to prove me wrong have Davairus pull every players account and post who they play under their account name, it would be really fucking interesting to see who plays what alt and what bullshit has stemmed from that.
Man, what world do you live in? The item was not bugged, it did drain my mana but just because you didn’t see that doesn’t mean it’s not there. I attacked you in town because Heinreldt and Glorbag both follow Vhrael, hence I sided with my deity and his followers when Heinreldt was wanted. Break RP? Glorbag is a dumb ogre shaman, all he wants to do is smash headset I don’t see where you’re coming from with ‘break rp’. I do join up with nelrask as his deity is an ally of my deity, plus we both get hounded by knights so of course I side with him. I get no benefits from immortals so again, not sure where that is coming from. And I haven’t played because look at the hours I put in this month alone, sometimes you just need a break. Also, I’m not part of any ‘circle jerk’ as you so call it. In fact I just moved and I don’t have any social media whatsoever. If you would like proof because clearly you live in your own bubble, Davairus if he feels inclined can indeed any information he would like on me just to prove you wrong and you’re holier than thou piss poor attitude. I usually don’t post on forums but for you I’ll make an exception. I can’t believe that you think IMMS are helping a mortal character. That is friggin ridiculous.
Davairus
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Its not a deliberate 100% OOC thing, but Ozaru isn't 100% wrong. Some Imms have been playing favorites, logging out to help their favorite people. I think most of the time the actual players are completely unaware. But its not like they are any different from anybody else in that regard. Everybody does that. All I said was I see a circle jerk. Notice how Legion suddenly showed up gangbanging with Heinrildt. I challenge any of you to roll an avian DK, get WANTED and see if Legion will just show up and gangbang Justices with you. I've played level 50 avian DK's and got WANTED. That doesn't happen. If the Knights did that, the Legions would all be penning notes so furiously. This stuff lately crosses the line in my opinion. I raged about this stuff literally a week ago and that clearly did nothing. I mean I don't super-care about it either, but at least join the same fucking cabal, I don't want to login my own caballed main to deal with yours plus some bodyslam spamming side-trash you brought along. WTF is that. I can play league of legends if I want to bottom lane solo (with an idiot soraka or something) vs two thick cunts playing a power combo
Legion helping your DK didn’t happen so legion can never help a DK? That is some weird sounding “n of 1” stuff there... On your avian DK did you level with legions and fight against goods with them out of self preservation? If you did then maybe they would have helped you. Maybe there weren’t any legions - I have no clue what time we are talking about (this could be 2 years ago who knows).
I’m a devout of Vhrael and I will do whatever he says. If he says attack the priest of darkness, I would. If he said attack Zakzaer, I would. If he says attack Aiko, I would. If he didn’t say to do it alone and I’ve failed in my attempt and help arrived, I’m going to use it. I’m sure not going to go ooc begging people to log on and publicly say how shitty I am and that I need help. (oops)
What do you mean “if the knights did that”? If a contracted paladin was fighting a legion and then two knights logged on and helped him kill the legion? Maybe they would whine but they’d probably be told to suck it up, getting 3v1 is a risk you take when you join a cabal. If you never want to face the odds and pick battles, don’t join a cabal (Eurayel did awesome).
Davairus
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theres a saying about polishing a turd. and i was fighting the legions and justices all at the same time with mine. a lot harder now than it was back then though because we could have a charmie that worked really well, dodge, etc
Must be a strange coincidence that you take up for a player thats 46 hours played, in those gang bang logs Dogran or Rithgjar was part of them along with Heinreldt. Cuz we all know that torments of hell is totally worth losing and so easy to get so why not get wanted. I can't wait to be a follower of vhrael and see how many people get wanted for me when I attack a justice in town.
Ozaru
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A long time ago their was a helpfile on being neutral as far as the law is concerned where neutrals were basically expected to follow the law if a justice was around, but if they weren't they could break it freely. I couldn't find that help file anymore so just for fun being a neutral means you can break the law whenever you want because it sounds more like a chaotic.
Arunore
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Hmm.. to my understanding, I thought you could go "one over" on alignment or ethos. Meaning you could be a true neutral but gun for lawful or chaotic neutral or neutral evil or good and that was acceptable behavior but not one that is without repercussions. Is this not the way alignment and ethos is handled currently?
What happened to Aiko with Heinrildt/Zakzaer/Dogran wasn't OOC.
This char quickly became a 'trash char' once I died a couple times at 25 to Dogran and Rithgjar (independently I think). At that time his purpose became gangbanging Rithgjar and had some success at low levels, where he was going to stay until he inactive deleted.
Through RP with an immortal, he gained a new purpose and even though he was trash (multiple low level deaths, a history of gangbanging) I decided to level him up to see how that new RP avenue worked out.
The reason Heinrich became 'friends' with Rithgjar and Dogran was easy - self preservation. I definitely didn't have enough experience then with a dark knight to fight either of them at 50 with hopes of success. That being said, it was an in-game friendship and I didn't coordinate OOC to gear or lynch.
I have no idea who plays Glorbag and wouldn't coordinate anything OOC even if I did. We are 'friends' because we champion the same cause. I would have happily gotten wanted to 'fight the man' if he was the one fighting justices.
Davairus is in the best position to know who is doing what, so if he says there are OOC gangbangs then there probably are. There just aren't with heinrich/zakzaer/glorbag.
This is your graveyard post though, not mine. So I'll say again that I respect your combat skills and in our 1 hour fight of 1v1 I'll admit you had me running in all of our fights (this is why I asked Zakzaer to team up - if I was clearlly winning all of our fights, I wouldn't have asked for help). I hope you come back after a break and get right back in there. It's always great having an experienced PKer in the fray.
The relationship with Heinrildt has been an interesting one. He literrally got wanted saving my life in our first log. Prior to that, he fought Rithgjar and I a couple of times as we started ranking together at low levels. I am the one that in game convinces Heinrildt and Rith to play nice together, explaining with all the goodies coming up alongside us, and our need to push to 50, that we were better allies than enemies. After all, once we hit 50 we could go back to killing eachother right? Along the way Hein made good use for that , and had some chances to fight alongside us when those invokers/healers and solmundi started trying to gank us. He became wanted that first time, and stayed wanted, as in never got apprehended. (Unfortunately I made mistakes a couple of times and died, lost my flag, gained a new flag.) 100 perecent, Aiko invaded on me to retrieve his item, and because one of our party was wanted flagged me for assisting criminals, when actually I was defending my cabal. Now, naturally that made me a little salty, and that insured that if I saw Aiko, I would invade. I logged in the other night as soon as I got home from work. It was in progress already, and as soon as I showed up I learned you guys were fighting in justice cabal. Naturally, I am wanted and evil, it's in my best interest to either chase you off or kill you so you couldn't go for me alone later with your special guard. Also on top of that I knew you had tenor, and my gear was shit, so it was a good chance to take Tenor from you like you took it from Thoom. Every action you take in character has a potential in character consequence, and we were in opposing cabals. Nothing OOC in that one bit. Sorry about your bad luck and good luck with your next.
Davairus
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This character Aiko was deliberately picked on so severely. It wasnt just a wrong place at the wrong time thing. And the friday gangbanging was co-ordinated OOC, I can link you the forum thread if you want. Anyone could cite that.
Let me give you a tip. The best players (this includes imms in this statement) are setting the example the others follow. Its not the case that the players of AR are rampant OOC gangbanging trash. They're just following the example that came from the top. Several players have asked me to hide their character list from the imms. And people make new accounts to try to hide them from the imms. Even the imms dont want the imms to see their char list. That should tell you everything you need. Some of you pretty much just need to tighten up your boundaries regarding what you are willing to do and share with other people, that's the OVERALL problem. If that statement seems like it applies to you, listen up. Stop blurting out everyone's shit. If someone confides in you, cool for you, but keep your trap shut, instead of telling 3 people.
Kalist19
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Well that forum post was really trying to get teams lined up evenly. I thought for example that if there were 4 goods signed up and 2 evils, a guy who has a good and evil would then sign up as evil. It was a totally failed experiment and I didn’t repeat it the following Friday or any others after that.
I cheered your post. This game is so much more fun when you don’t know who is playing who and when they don’t know who you play.
Ozaru
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K im done, thanks Dav for that. I really appreciate your honesty because I am sure its frustrating to see how people drive players away from a game you have invested such a great deal in. But when this shit is coming from the people who are supposed to protect the integrity of the game fuck it. I don't need this shit.
Davairus
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I wouldnt sweat that much about it. Shit like that is going to happen once in a while. It happens. It gets dealt with. This is simple. Its logging in thinking they are going to make a fight even and being too retarded to not realize its actually making it lopsided. Its a complement really Ozaru. And also being retarded. Some level of retardation is required to be unable to judge how it lies better than make a retarded call. Like thinking dagnir + one level 46 ninja versus 3 level 50s is a fair team fight. They'd smoke the ninja's boots then post ensnare needs a nerf afterward
Merlandox
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Wtf dav? I'm not even part of the fight and you know it. I was the one who posted ensnare needs a nerf because i truly felt the duration was too long, considering the nerfs to other cabal skills from legion and knights(maybe? Havent gotten brought to valour dungeons recently).
Stop linking irrelevant stuff as if I'm part of the group picking on ozaru. What's wromg with u man?
Davairus
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It wasn't about you actually. Also Legion powers were buffed on patch.
Man, I wish I would've logged your bitchfest and all the accusations you were making...
Let me clear at least MY side of whatever "circle jerk" you think I'm involved in.
1) I was AWOL for fucking years. Came back during COVID. I work 70+ hrs a week, have a wife and 2 kids who are extremely active in sports/activities, and I have little "free time." I try to help out in a game that I'm completely out of touch with after ~10 years of changes. Res and I have that in common.
2) I know who plays who. I know that there are (what I believe to be) OOC groups, but I've never interacted with, inquired about, or otherwise helped or involved myself whatsoever with any of those groups.
3) I've rolled a couple morts since coming back, nothing spectacular, just trying to get more acclimated with in-game changes (because imm skills make me a little out-of-touch with how real shit works). Any interactions those morts have had, any relationships whatsoever, have remained in-game and in-character. I can't speak for any other imms on this, but that's what I feel is fair, and that's what I try to abide by. (Before I was immed, I did engage in OOC groupings for winter trips and Clifton and I tried making "conjoined twin" characters for Heralds, but that's the extent of my OOC engagements.)
4) I've been developing an RP story arc that I've leaked little by little with various characters (...in-character...) to not only explain Vhrael's absence, but to add some flavor to my imm/mort interactions. Anyone who was around way back when should remember that I was always fucking with morts on my imm (poisoned candy that teleport/blind/etc., random mobs trans'ed in, gambling whirlwind poker sessions, bitchslap/transferring, etc.). It always kept it fun and fresh for me as well as those I interacted with.
5) I was changed to chaotic like 1-2 weeks ago as a result of some staff assignment changes (I'm helping out with Legion, etc.). Going from lawful Justice to a Justice-hating chaotic undead asshole is a big change, and honestly I forgot the chaotic was a change.
6) Glorbag, whether you believe it or not, pledged to me without a single interaction between us. I just recently got my religion shit fixed (thanks Olyn and Vanisse), so I've been excited to gain followers, especially with the behind-the-scenes RP arc I've been working on. I became visible one day and Glorbag's like "hurdur, me smashum gud for me god" and was extremely upbeat and would brag to me every time he murdered someone "in my name." I praised it, as I have with Heinrildt, and obviously encouraged more bodies to hit the floor. Being that Glorbag is a shaman (priest), I felt it was fitting that he could be my adept. I never checked his ethos, much less thought "hmm he acts chaotic, but he's not," so I told him I need a right-hand-man. He was up for it, and that was it. I gave him a title because I wanted everyone to see that my boy was fucking wrecking people's faces, and I wanted the publicity for my religion. Again, all RP.
I've never given any advantages to characters (at least that I can recall, certainly not since I've been back). I've restored the whole game's worth of mortals at times, much the same as other imms have done, but I haven't singled out characters fighting and chosen sides or done anything like that. The fact that I'm taking the time to sit and explain all this should (hopefully) speak to at least MY character as a person and as a member of the imm staff.
I don't owe you an apology or explanation, Ozaru. You unloaded on me while I was trying to type shit on my phone through fucking MUDRammer, but you were going 90mph accusing and cussing me and "the rest of the OOC circle jerk." You would barely let me get a word in, yet you insisted that I had to have given OOC favoritism and was deliberately trying to sabotage you. You didn't want to talk, though you accused me of not wanting to discuss it. I was pissed because you were falsely accusing me of things I hadn't done, and you already had your short fuse ignited. All the same, here I am trying to clear at least some of the air after the shit has hit the proverbial fan.
If there's OOC going on and I can find it, I try to stamp it out. I've already (since I've been back) been told to back off on a couple of infractions for various rules violations that I've wanted to bring the hammer down for, but if it takes cracking the whip on some rule breakers to try and make it fairer for everyone, so be it.
Whether you stay or go in the long run won't matter much to me, if I'm being honest. I like your characters for the most part (what I see of them, anyway) but your flash-in-the-pan, flavor-of-the-week attitude and throwing accusations at the first sign of adversity needs work. If you'd stick it out with one instead of giving up so quickly, it might be more rewarding in the long run.
I wish you the best regardless, but don't ever fucking accuse me of something again unless you've got a smoking gun. I've given too much time with no reward to take that baseless shit from you or anyone.
On a side not, religions are allowed to be one axis off. So Glorbag being neutral evil can most certainly follow a chaotic evil or even lawful evil deity. You were trying to apprehend a fellow follower and I stepped in, neutral evils will do anything that helps them IE using laws and allies alike, pretty sure that is stated in the helpfile. Being neutral evil doesn’t mean I can’t break laws especially when I’m trying to kill the person trying to kill another follower of my deity.
Arunore
1 , 0 , 0 .
Sounds like a GlorBag kind of thing to say.
Vanisse
2 , 0 , 0 .
The chaotic vs neutral behavior question is exactly what happened with Yngfre. Dunno about anyone else but I didn't realize Yngfre was neu/neu until waaaaaaaaaay later. Following chaotic air religion made me think that's what she was. Maybe the whole one-off axis religion selection thing is a little wonky.
Nycticora
0 , 0 , 2 .
Vhrael you're such a dickhead I have a hardcoded exception in the code to prevent you from slaying ceridwel every time you log in
Vhrael
1 , 0 , 1 .
Nyct, how you have "hardcoded anything" still present in the game is completely baffling to me. You are nothing but toxic and divisive, and if it were up to me I'd have banned you from the forum and game already for your constant negative behavior. You are irrelevant, you add zero constructive value to the game, and until you begin to show any sense of self-awareness for your horrible attitude and childish behavior I'll continue to think so.
I've had extremely limited interaction with you over the years, yet you have this extremely infantile attitude toward me. As for Ceridwel, he got pissed off at me because he was working on coding something and I slayed him. I apologized. It was a joke, and a prank that I've had pulled on me hundreds of times over the years, and I didn't think anything of it. He didn't lose con, didn't lose equipment, he just got disrupted and was understandably upset. That was well after you left, so again, how you "hardcoded" something into the game after that one-time incident is baffling to me.
I really wish you could reach a point of maturity as an adult to either decide to move on away from this game and its community completely, or that you want to be a constructive, positive influence instead of trying actively to destroy and dismantle it. If you want to start your own AR clone, do it already. Just shut your fucking negative mouth already, you look pitiful and pathetic and nobody wants to hear it anymore.
There is a hand drawn cartoon in discord that was inspired by this GY thread. Mentioning it here because I think some of the people in it aren’t in discord (Xenyar Arunore Ozaru?).
BlackWidow
2 , 0 , 3 .
I'm also not in the official Discord nor do I have any desire to be in it.
Arunore
5 , 0 , 0 .
Yeah im in there. I will switch my name to arunore
I enjoy the discord group, lot of good food recipes and general talk about non-game stuff. There is game talk, but nothing ooc or anything. I feel like we're growing together as an awesome community :)
It's actually frustrating as an Imm knowing who are part of OOC groups, and then having to obey 10 (or 30) minute log-in rules when you see them firing up to go ham on someone. I'd also like to point out that all the imms are pretty shit at pk'ing (even Ramod, though he talks like he's still relevant), and you're almost never interacting with our mortals, unless we're playing the role of speed bump for someones rampage.
Kind of feels like you try to reach out to a lot of players for that sort of thing. Hardly the first time it's ever happened with a player organizing stuff, hardly be the last. Not going to shit on you for it, I feel as time goes by and you get more confident about your skills, you'll rely on that option less and less.
Ozaru, i think you're throwing shade at people a little too easily. Sometimes coincidence do happen and it's not difficult for someone to log on and join the gangbang immediately especially when all three are wanted. OOC gangbangs will be dealt with if it gets too rampant and it affects pbase, you can be sure of it. My character got denied before in the past for blatant ooc gangbang. When 3 skilled players gangbang, nobody survives if you dont log off. Once it gets bad the imms will come in, it's real. Chill out for a while and come back to have fun. Gang the legions with all the circle jerk paladins these days.
Woah buddy, I don't know anything about circle jerks. I fly solo, hombre.
Ozaru
0 , 0 , 0 .
Sure coincidences do happen I have been on the beneficial side of them a few times, but i have been on the shitty side of them and apparent ooc shit too many times. Why wouldn't I ever want to play a game when some immortals work together to target a specific player. They aren't testing me to see if I can ever become elite, they simply want to ruin my fun. So yes I am giving up because I simply don't want to deal with it anymore.
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
its because they think you can beat 3 of them in one go because guard and dagnir
Some of the most fun I've had playing AR is with non-caballed characters (like this one).
Erlwith
0 , 0 , 0 .
I haven't had a cabal char in years. Maybe the last was my disgraced forsaken hah. It is much more fun not being told what to do and how to do it. Then again, judging by what I see now people in cabals don't really follow the cabal rules anyway.
Xenyar
1 , 0 , 0 .
Erlwith, could that be...Occuilus? I liked that guy, That's when I actually played xenyar and was a dreadlord under you at that time.
Sorry for the threadjack.
Resume shitstorm.
Erlwith
0 , 0 , 0 .
Yes it was ! I liked Xenyar a lot and have always had respect for your PK since you whooped ass with a drow warrior :P
Character lists shouldn't be available to Imms, other than Dav.
If there's an issue, he can look into it that players account.
There no reason at all for imms to even have access to that shit anyways.
I need to see who's playing in my cabal. No you don't. If the character does just fine, then wtf does it matter? If the char fucks up, then boot em.
Faelon
2 , 0 , 1 .
This.
I think there is a crutch in place, that gets relied on to a certain extent (and I can show cuts from GY posts, if needs be to prove this). As humans we are totally unable to move past our own biases. We get phrases like;
"Oh, I knew it was you but..." or "I saw you really trying this time..."
Those are sure indications of having information, which is irrelevant, and a bias will surely follow.
With that in mind, there would need to be some other imm/imp in the know, simply for rule breaking. Perhaps a single enforcement imm/imp, who also has that information responsible for enforcement of repeat rulebreakers etc...
Vhrael
2 , 0 , 0 .
I understand the sentiment/idea you're going for, but the other part of this is simple: we don't have one (or even two, for that matter) imms who have the ability to stay logged 24/7 or comb through data for said 24/7 period of time to be able to catch all rules violations. It takes everyone doing his/her part contributing to the imm staff as a whole to make things work.
Everyone who's of a certain rank and who has access to the in-game information they do, has said access and rank for a reason. They've been given a certain level of trust by Dav or other implementors because they've shown they can be trusted. If there's abuse of that trust, it can be remedied on an individual basis (demotion, deny, ban, skill strip, whatever depending on the severity). I don't think blanket nerfs are going to help us better police our current playerbase.
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
We (meaning the implementors) are discussing what we want to do internally about it. I'll make sure you hear the decision. While saying that, we shouldn't discount the facts that he has a five year record of throwing annoying temper tantrums and making baseless accusations. That's what a narcissist does. After years spent driving people crazy and wasting loads of energy on bullshit, they play the "gotcha" card then say thank you I'm leaving. We are better off without it.
Kornhole
2 , 0 , 0 .
I am SOOOO happy that I never try to think about who is playing what character. I hate that playing today I had my first thought of "I wonder if this might be (Player X)" All this talk of who plays who actually made me ponder it, and it made me disgusted. I think limiting the ability to see WHO plays what character is of PARAMOUNT importance, because it takes active thought and lots of energy to truly remain IC, and not even try to think of who is playing what character, and I would venture to say that the more people that have access to that information exponentially increases the possibility for abuse of said information. Just my two cents. Fuck people who hate on other players, and double fuck those who hate on characters because the think they know who plays them. Triple fuck pieces of dog shit who actually know who plays who, and then hate on their characters because of it.
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
I don't really share that sort of view Kornhole. I think its more like this. You put a tool in the hand of somebody and they will use it whatever way that makes sense to them. There is the saying that power corrupts but its really more the case that you see power used in ways that particular person feels ethically ok with doing. You get to learn something about that person's character that way. Also, its my experience that most players (including the imms) take apparent inaction from other imms / implementors as a nod to whatever they are doing is fine. These things always tend to end in a blowout rather than getting nipped in the bud. We need to acknowledge we fucked up and correct the mistake, not really very helpful to point fingers and have witch hunts after the fact.
Here's a different but relatable topic. There was recently a change to a stave that casts mana shield, which has been in the game for seven years, and identified and plainly in view in the codex for at least three years . You have the area it was in reviewed multiple times by multiple imms. It survived all that scrutiny. Sometimes it just takes a great player to show you that a tool is bad for the game. That player definitely doesn't deserve punishment though. He didn't put the tool in the game. He didn't leave it in the game for seven years not doing anything about it. He didn't use it in bad faith. Everyone who was an imm at any period in the last seven years and said nothing has really no place to be screaming at a player. Mistakes were made, just correct the item and apologize right.
By now its clear that we still need way more time to decide what to do about the immortal commands, so I have for now triaged it. I upped this command's access to implementor-only (level 60) use. Nobody any lower on the totem pole has any access to this anymore.
Xenyar
0 , 0 , 0 .
I agree with your example with the mana shield thing. But, I give a hard disagree with the relevancy or correlation to the issue at hand...And feel like it's an attempt at sugar coating the fact something was abused by imms that negatively impacted(fucked) a player/players.
Which, I don't necessarily blame you for. Because you want to show support for your imms, while at the same time trying to show the community you're taking the steps to correcting this problem. A balancing act to make everybody content. That shit ain't easy.
So, for Ozaru.
Let us start with this. Names.
Kedaleam
0 , 0 , 0 .
I quite literally see this as "Imps only can catch cheaters". I just want to voice this. Take advantage of it or not.
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
I can relate to that demand because I was extremely angry a few days ago and came pretty close to doing that actually. But I think pretty much all us higher-ups agreed it is bad judgment and that the particular command shouldn't be in the hands of *ANY* lower level imm. There isn't really any sentiment among us to publically humiliate people. Its not going to produce a positive outcome so its just not worth it.
Xenyar
1 , 0 , 0 .
I expect for the AR to never know who cheated against them.
Staying in the shadows WILL leave a bad taste in the mouth of the community. Cheating and hiding....and then not having to completely face the music?
Weak Sauce.
Vevier
0 , 0 , 1 .
Further comments regarding this topic will be removed from this graveyard thread for violation of the logboard posting rule "DON'T "thread hijack"". ANY further off-topic posts will be removed.
Playing this game with the current imm staff and then complaining when they cheat is like sticking your arm in a meat grinder and complaining it hurts. Like yeah it sucks but what the fuck did you expect
Ashlyn 
0 , 0 , 0 . I think a drow justice is interesting if you play it right. The law can suffer from corruption. On the other topic Gangbangs are a part of the game and are bullshit. OOC gangbangs have always been in the game even with a 50+ pbase. You make friends with someone who is badass at the game in game and break it up, or roll something annoying and troll the shit out of them.
[reply to Ozaru]But that aside, a pretty successful pk run, if short lived. Don't know what drama happened to cause the delete or the outburst. Interested though.
Anyways, good luck with the next one Ozaru.
[reply to hamsandwich]
We were having a good fight 1v1 for about an hour there. I tried compelling a triton and it slaughtered me. I was really worried you would come find me fighting it and kill me instantly.
You really took my by surprise taking advantage of weapon types like that. I'm used to paying attention vs combat style but I haven't really ever thought about weapon type - you made me pay for that.
I didn't have any personal agenda against you (the char or the player, and I didn't know it was you) other than I was wanted and you were a justice. Like I said, it was just bad luck that crimminals logged on instead of justices. It would have been great if you had some backup like Solmundi or Triyan.
Ozaru 
0 , 0 , 0 . Maybe thats true in your case, but the pbase is pretty small. So when you have one character on chances are they are playing their alt in a different cabal. So here in this case, my guess is either friends of bladefury or friends of Thoom. And even if it is just bad luck I don't play the way these guys do. If I am in a cabal I want 1 v 1 fights because I want the satisfaction of knowing I can either beat this person or they got the best of me.
hamsandwich 
0 , 0 , 0 . Bruh I just don't like drow shadow Justice. Doesn't sit right with me that an evil ninja like character can be a Justice, and the rp never convinces me. Not saying you did anything wrong or whatever. Just a personal gripe that I have that has pretty much nothing at all to do with you. lol I shouldn't have been a jerk in my comment. Sorry man. Kalist19 
0 , 0 , 0 . I think you have a good point there Ozaru - we don’t really want an environment where people avoid logging in because they don’t want to go up against a gank squad. Maybe the answer is to have more people go justice to create kind of a ‘safe environment’ for people to play in and enjoy. Of course there’s no guarantee that marauding evils/knights won’t go on a rampage but if more of us play that protector role, maybe it would work out. E.g if more of us played justice there’s a good chance you would have had at least some backup. Davairus 1 , 0 , 0 . I think mostly we all like an environment where the perma-grouped OOC gangbangers aren't the imms who literally know who is playing people's characters, who keep powerlevelling together while gangbanging the same guys over and over across all characters. Ozaru's trying to level at a reasonable pace without a ranking train. I'm pretty sure that's the point Ozaru is trying to make. He's feeling harassed across all his characters. That's being said without any "proof" but that doesn't mean it isn't true. What other non-Legions suddenly became huge chums with Zakzaer? He pretty much only logs in at 3am and has no other friends. Meanwhile, Heinrildt has been gangbanging garbage from level 1. Everyone should be able to see that, or if not you'd have to just be dense as fuck. Its a case of the "cool kids". Its much like school bullying. I've levelled up a few times now myself, since March, and seen Imms log off and quickly log on the same niche trash characters and gun for me knowing exactly where I am, with my stream turned off. I make counter-characters to beat them up with and suddenly they never want to log them in. So it isn't really reasonable to reply "well you have no proof". I could post pages and pages of "proof". It is 100% a circle jerk Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . Thank you for sticking with it Ozaru. Ozaru 
0 , 0 , 0 . Wow all I can say is thank you, but I have 0 motivation to log in and put in any effort in this game anymore. You have created a great game and I know it will continue to be successful. Arunore 
2 , 0 , 0 . Don't give up Ozaru. I think all or most of us have been in those situations where our enemies conveniently log in back to back. I cannot tell you how many times it has happened to me, but all I can say is, if you die against adversity, at least you had the courage to stand and fight. That goes a long way in a lot of eyes, and then there's the chance of you being victorious. Then the day shall come when you are welcoming 4 v 1's because you know you're at least taking out 3 of them. Kornhole 
0 , 0 , 0 . If coincedence, kinda funny. If OOC, bullshit. If OOC because of IMM knowledge of who was behind the character, I hate to say that I am with Ranix, but fuck a place with that kind of bullshit IN CHARGE!?!?!?! Also, humblest apologies to whoever played this toon, and I hate to post on a GY of a character I never even met (Haven't played in two weeks or so, and it seems that was the entire lifespan.) But I feel strongly about this particular point, and could not not voice my opinion. Vevier 
1 , 0 , 0 . There seems to be some confusion, which stems both from the way the conversation in this thread has proceeded and also some assumptions from people who are playing/watchig from the sidelines. IMMs don't target players and we especially don't log in to gang them. It didn't happen in this case either, although I can't speak to whether there was coordination on the parts of the players.
Ozaru 
0 , 0 , 0 . Everything you said is the exact opposite of what Dav said (removed) 0 , 0 , 0 . THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED. Vevier 
0 , 0 , 0 . Stop breaking posting rules or yellow cards will be issued. Final warning. (removed) 0 , 0 , 1 . THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED. (removed) 0 , 0 , 1 . THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED. (removed) 0 , 0 , 0 . THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED. Vevier 
0 , 0 , 0 . Post removed for violation of the following rules: (removed) 0 , 0 , 1 . THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED. (removed) 0 , 0 , 2 . THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED. Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . nothing to see here
[reply to Heinrildt]So for Hamsandwich to say i am a piece of shit drow, I only had interactions with two characters that were unfavorable. One deleted and we know who it is, the other well lets just say his alt or a friend of his got some eq back tonight.
So when I say this isn't fun for me anymore, it really isn't. This game is designed to be as fun and as challenging as you make it and also how the pbase interacts with one another. That is why this game is so unique, but im tired of running into that brick wall and expecting a different result. So good luck to you all, but I am not going to change the way I play and neither will you all.
But when you guys bitch about guardian sitting, or people quitting out and you guys pull this shit you can have it.
Definitely have no part of the 3v1 that happened and have no OOC connections.
I would further caution against basing assumptions on what ranix says, as he is no longer a member of the staff and has shown that his only goal in coming back to this site is to stir up drama and force people to take sides on issues that could otherwise be handled either diplomatically or through discussion that leads to code changes. For an example of this, please see this thread: https://abandonedrealms.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13115 where Dav is proposing to provide the who list before you commit to your login. That would theoretically allow you (as a reasonable player) to see that its already 3v1 favored to your side and choose not to pile on. I have some concerns with this proposal, but please please don't buy into the us vs them mentality he's trying to create. Further discussion of that topic should occur on that thread to preserve the gravestone here, please :).
For specific instances where you think ooc has occurred, providing an inquiry with as much information would allow immortals to follow up on it and see if there is a pattern that needs attention.
DON'T troll.
DON'T bump old dead topics.
DON'T repost posts that have been deleted by the moderators. Fix them first.
Zakzaer 0 , 0 , 0 . I don't expect you to believe me, as it seems you are pretty set on what you perceive is correct. Which you have every right.
Glorbag 3 , 0 , 0 . So you only want 1 v 1 when it’s in your favor, but, let’s say there’s a wanted fire shaman around and gets snared by the commander MOMENTS before you log in and pursue as well. I know it’s the job of justice to hunt criminals, and I know legions are evil and do whatever they want to. But let’s be honest, you’re complaining because it was against you.
[reply to Ozaru]I also just logged on without any interactions, it just happened to be in the middle of you fighting. I actually logged on and located spiked to see, and saw two pieces hidden so remember you had those two pieces, realized you were probably on.
Like you say, you play the way you want in terms of fighting and rp and others play the way they want. You can't expect other people to rp a certain way just so you can have a "fair" fight. If I logged on and there was 3 Justices, would two of them "back off" for a fair fight? Being ganked is part of cabal warfare, that is reality. You can avoid it by just not joining a cabal and picking your fight whenever you want (ie. Eurayel).
Terrible timing, but really kudos for not being a wimp and coming to defend. I personally would not have taken any equipment (and I didn't loot anything) but not like I can tell others not to.
I looked forward to working with you, our interactions were brief but worthwhile.
You seemed knowledge and I wish you luck in the future.
[reply to Llloyied]
[reply to Ungril]
Merlandox 
0 , 0 , 0 . Why dont you have a 100 mental and mal saves to prevent getting spelled and then survive the onslaught? Guardian sit a little, then wait for them raid the sanctum and sit at the altar defender. Heard it was buffed, so it'll be a great thing to bait them to raid the sanctum and then maybe have a better chance. Before that it's survival bro. Thoom 0 , 0 , 0 . From my limited experience I really really do not think sanctum guardian was buffed. I haven't tried to kill one, but Glorbag invaded on me and I figured I had a little bit of time, especially because the "buff" note. But Glorbag solo killed the guard in less than 3 in game hours. Literally couldn't have got there in time even if I had tried Ozaru 
0 , 0 , 0 . So probably the last post Ill be making in a while so I will try and make this as complete as possible. Saves wasn't an issue, titanium tenor allows for easy item slot placement for saves. I wasn't spelled up in the fight, the issue was after fighting both Zak and the dkn in seringale I had to run off. In that time period the fire shaman logs in and they immediately invade. The coordination on that was amazing. So I had a choice, I could have quit out or go and fight. When they invaded I had that same feeling of why am I wasting my time against these targeted ooc groups. So I gave a half hearted effort and just died.
Glorbag 0 , 1 , 0 . Dogran is a duergar shaman, I’m the fire shaman. And stop calling the kettle black. When I was evading you and Solmundi I used the blackened animal skull for mana shield and you literally went OOC saying that I was cheating and that the IMMS were helping me. Because of that crap, an item has been adjusted to not give mana shield (boo) and instead now just does dark shroud. You talk about OOC but from what I witnessed you’ve had your fair share and then complain when someone else does it as if the same rules you are saying the other people break doesn’t apply to you. Ozaru 
0 , 0 , 0 . Its cheating when you are exploiting a bug you know shouldn't work. Clearly you are an experienced player, you break rp, and you use a bugged item to save your ass. Once that change happens you stopped playing wonder why. If you want to get into it fine I'll bite.
Glorbag 0 , 0 , 0 . Man, what world do you live in? The item was not bugged, it did drain my mana but just because you didn’t see that doesn’t mean it’s not there. I attacked you in town because Heinreldt and Glorbag both follow Vhrael, hence I sided with my deity and his followers when Heinreldt was wanted. Break RP? Glorbag is a dumb ogre shaman, all he wants to do is smash headset I don’t see where you’re coming from with ‘break rp’. I do join up with nelrask as his deity is an ally of my deity, plus we both get hounded by knights so of course I side with him. I get no benefits from immortals so again, not sure where that is coming from. And I haven’t played because look at the hours I put in this month alone, sometimes you just need a break. Also, I’m not part of any ‘circle jerk’ as you so call it. In fact I just moved and I don’t have any social media whatsoever. If you would like proof because clearly you live in your own bubble, Davairus if he feels inclined can indeed any information he would like on me just to prove you wrong and you’re holier than thou piss poor attitude. I usually don’t post on forums but for you I’ll make an exception. I can’t believe that you think IMMS are helping a mortal character. That is friggin ridiculous. Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . Its not a deliberate 100% OOC thing, but Ozaru isn't 100% wrong. Some Imms have been playing favorites, logging out to help their favorite people. I think most of the time the actual players are completely unaware. But its not like they are any different from anybody else in that regard. Everybody does that. All I said was I see a circle jerk. Notice how Legion suddenly showed up gangbanging with Heinrildt. I challenge any of you to roll an avian DK, get WANTED and see if Legion will just show up and gangbang Justices with you. I've played level 50 avian DK's and got WANTED. That doesn't happen. If the Knights did that, the Legions would all be penning notes so furiously. This stuff lately crosses the line in my opinion. I raged about this stuff literally a week ago and that clearly did nothing. I mean I don't super-care about it either, but at least join the same fucking cabal, I don't want to login my own caballed main to deal with yours plus some bodyslam spamming side-trash you brought along. WTF is that. I can play league of legends if I want to bottom lane solo (with an idiot soraka or something) vs two thick cunts playing a power combo Heinrildt 0 , 0 , 0 . Legion helping your DK didn’t happen so legion can never help a DK? That is some weird sounding “n of 1” stuff there... On your avian DK did you level with legions and fight against goods with them out of self preservation? If you did then maybe they would have helped you. Maybe there weren’t any legions - I have no clue what time we are talking about (this could be 2 years ago who knows).
Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . theres a saying about polishing a turd. and i was fighting the legions and justices all at the same time with mine. a lot harder now than it was back then though because we could have a charmie that worked really well, dodge, etc
[reply to Davairus]Now for those who are saying my ooc accusations are bullshit, its really disappointing to find out its really imms doing it and what is rather amusing is who is liking Bladfury's posts could you guys be more transparent.
Lastly as far as the guardian, they weren't planning on taking the item, the guardian was my one chance to have an ally and I had limited time before it died. Once the guardian died I'd have 3 people grouped together running around trying to kill me.
So with that, enjoy and have fun.
You played this persona of I am just walking around minding my own business and knights attack me so I defend myself. You had no problem ranking with me, getting eq with me and your circle jerk, and even telling me you killed the guy that killed me when I had to afk. Then all of a sudden you attack me in town for no reason. From everything I read on shamans they have specific rp and can get outcasted by it. Vhrael is a chaotic evil you are a neutral evil how can you be his adept its bullshit. You clearly picked neutral shaman to benefit from orderly equipment. You use a bugged item and don't report it thats bullshit. Whoever designed the blackened animal skull to give 18 charges of mana shield without it draining the users mana pool is stupid and you know it.
The difference between you and I is you are getting benefits from immortals and your circle jerks at the very least own up to it and don't pretend you aren't. Nelrask you and that illusionist form a perma group how many people have access to vamps, hmmmm not many. How many people know the ins and outs of phemos with such ease, my guess not many. So when you stack all of this shit on the table yeah I hold imms and experienced players to a different standard because you have more experience and when you use that ooc circle jerk against players I call bullshit.
If you guys want to prove me wrong have Davairus pull every players account and post who they play under their account name, it would be really fucking interesting to see who plays what alt and what bullshit has stemmed from that.
I’m a devout of Vhrael and I will do whatever he says. If he says attack the priest of darkness, I would. If he said attack Zakzaer, I would. If he says attack Aiko, I would. If he didn’t say to do it alone and I’ve failed in my attempt and help arrived, I’m going to use it. I’m sure not going to go ooc begging people to log on and publicly say how shitty I am and that I need help. (oops)
What do you mean “if the knights did that”? If a contracted paladin was fighting a legion and then two knights logged on and helped him kill the legion? Maybe they would whine but they’d probably be told to suck it up, getting 3v1 is a risk you take when you join a cabal. If you never want to face the odds and pick battles, don’t join a cabal (Eurayel did awesome).
Ozaru 
0 , 0 , 0 . A long time ago their was a helpfile on being neutral as far as the law is concerned where neutrals were basically expected to follow the law if a justice was around, but if they weren't they could break it freely. I couldn't find that help file anymore so just for fun being a neutral means you can break the law whenever you want because it sounds more like a chaotic. Arunore 
0 , 0 , 0 . Hmm.. to my understanding, I thought you could go "one over" on alignment or ethos. Meaning you could be a true neutral but gun for lawful or chaotic neutral or neutral evil or good and that was acceptable behavior but not one that is without repercussions. Is this not the way alignment and ethos is handled currently?
[reply to Ozaru]This char quickly became a 'trash char' once I died a couple times at 25 to Dogran and Rithgjar (independently I think). At that time his purpose became gangbanging Rithgjar and had some success at low levels, where he was going to stay until he inactive deleted.
Through RP with an immortal, he gained a new purpose and even though he was trash (multiple low level deaths, a history of gangbanging) I decided to level him up to see how that new RP avenue worked out.
The reason Heinrich became 'friends' with Rithgjar and Dogran was easy - self preservation. I definitely didn't have enough experience then with a dark knight to fight either of them at 50 with hopes of success. That being said, it was an in-game friendship and I didn't coordinate OOC to gear or lynch.
I have no idea who plays Glorbag and wouldn't coordinate anything OOC even if I did. We are 'friends' because we champion the same cause. I would have happily gotten wanted to 'fight the man' if he was the one fighting justices.
Davairus is in the best position to know who is doing what, so if he says there are OOC gangbangs then there probably are. There just aren't with heinrich/zakzaer/glorbag.
This is your graveyard post though, not mine. So I'll say again that I respect your combat skills and in our 1 hour fight of 1v1 I'll admit you had me running in all of our fights (this is why I asked Zakzaer to team up - if I was clearlly winning all of our fights, I wouldn't have asked for help). I hope you come back after a break and get right back in there. It's always great having an experienced PKer in the fray.
[reply to Heinrildt]
Davairus 3 , 0 , 0 . This character Aiko was deliberately picked on so severely. It wasnt just a wrong place at the wrong time thing. And the friday gangbanging was co-ordinated OOC, I can link you the forum thread if you want. Anyone could cite that.
Kalist19 
0 , 0 , 1 . Well that forum post was really trying to get teams lined up evenly. I thought for example that if there were 4 goods signed up and 2 evils, a guy who has a good and evil would then sign up as evil. It was a totally failed experiment and I didn’t repeat it the following Friday or any others after that.
Ozaru 
0 , 0 , 0 . K im done, thanks Dav for that. I really appreciate your honesty because I am sure its frustrating to see how people drive players away from a game you have invested such a great deal in. But when this shit is coming from the people who are supposed to protect the integrity of the game fuck it. I don't need this shit. Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . I wouldnt sweat that much about it. Shit like that is going to happen once in a while. It happens. It gets dealt with. This is simple. Its logging in thinking they are going to make a fight even and being too retarded to not realize its actually making it lopsided. Its a complement really Ozaru. And also being retarded. Some level of retardation is required to be unable to judge how it lies better than make a retarded call. Like thinking dagnir + one level 46 ninja versus 3 level 50s is a fair team fight. They'd smoke the ninja's boots then post ensnare needs a nerf afterward Merlandox 
0 , 0 , 1 . Wtf dav? I'm not even part of the fight and you know it. I was the one who posted ensnare needs a nerf because i truly felt the duration was too long, considering the nerfs to other cabal skills from legion and knights(maybe? Havent gotten brought to valour dungeons recently).
Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . It wasn't about you actually. Also Legion powers were buffed on patch.
[reply to Dogran]Let me give you a tip. The best players (this includes imms in this statement) are setting the example the others follow. Its not the case that the players of AR are rampant OOC gangbanging trash. They're just following the example that came from the top. Several players have asked me to hide their character list from the imms. And people make new accounts to try to hide them from the imms. Even the imms dont want the imms to see their char list. That should tell you everything you need. Some of you pretty much just need to tighten up your boundaries regarding what you are willing to do and share with other people, that's the OVERALL problem. If that statement seems like it applies to you, listen up. Stop blurting out everyone's shit. If someone confides in you, cool for you, but keep your trap shut, instead of telling 3 people.
I cheered your post. This game is so much more fun when you don’t know who is playing who and when they don’t know who you play.
Stop linking irrelevant stuff as if I'm part of the group picking on ozaru. What's wromg with u man?
Let me clear at least MY side of whatever "circle jerk" you think I'm involved in.
1) I was AWOL for fucking years. Came back during COVID. I work 70+ hrs a week, have a wife and 2 kids who are extremely active in sports/activities, and I have little "free time." I try to help out in a game that I'm completely out of touch with after ~10 years of changes. Res and I have that in common.
2) I know who plays who. I know that there are (what I believe to be) OOC groups, but I've never interacted with, inquired about, or otherwise helped or involved myself whatsoever with any of those groups.
3) I've rolled a couple morts since coming back, nothing spectacular, just trying to get more acclimated with in-game changes (because imm skills make me a little out-of-touch with how real shit works). Any interactions those morts have had, any relationships whatsoever, have remained in-game and in-character. I can't speak for any other imms on this, but that's what I feel is fair, and that's what I try to abide by. (Before I was immed, I did engage in OOC groupings for winter trips and Clifton and I tried making "conjoined twin" characters for Heralds, but that's the extent of my OOC engagements.)
4) I've been developing an RP story arc that I've leaked little by little with various characters (...in-character...) to not only explain Vhrael's absence, but to add some flavor to my imm/mort interactions. Anyone who was around way back when should remember that I was always fucking with morts on my imm (poisoned candy that teleport/blind/etc., random mobs trans'ed in, gambling whirlwind poker sessions, bitchslap/transferring, etc.). It always kept it fun and fresh for me as well as those I interacted with.
5) I was changed to chaotic like 1-2 weeks ago as a result of some staff assignment changes (I'm helping out with Legion, etc.). Going from lawful Justice to a Justice-hating chaotic undead asshole is a big change, and honestly I forgot the chaotic was a change.
6) Glorbag, whether you believe it or not, pledged to me without a single interaction between us. I just recently got my religion shit fixed (thanks Olyn and Vanisse), so I've been excited to gain followers, especially with the behind-the-scenes RP arc I've been working on. I became visible one day and Glorbag's like "hurdur, me smashum gud for me god" and was extremely upbeat and would brag to me every time he murdered someone "in my name." I praised it, as I have with Heinrildt, and obviously encouraged more bodies to hit the floor. Being that Glorbag is a shaman (priest), I felt it was fitting that he could be my adept. I never checked his ethos, much less thought "hmm he acts chaotic, but he's not," so I told him I need a right-hand-man. He was up for it, and that was it. I gave him a title because I wanted everyone to see that my boy was fucking wrecking people's faces, and I wanted the publicity for my religion. Again, all RP.
I've never given any advantages to characters (at least that I can recall, certainly not since I've been back). I've restored the whole game's worth of mortals at times, much the same as other imms have done, but I haven't singled out characters fighting and chosen sides or done anything like that. The fact that I'm taking the time to sit and explain all this should (hopefully) speak to at least MY character as a person and as a member of the imm staff.
I don't owe you an apology or explanation, Ozaru. You unloaded on me while I was trying to type shit on my phone through fucking MUDRammer, but you were going 90mph accusing and cussing me and "the rest of the OOC circle jerk." You would barely let me get a word in, yet you insisted that I had to have given OOC favoritism and was deliberately trying to sabotage you. You didn't want to talk, though you accused me of not wanting to discuss it. I was pissed because you were falsely accusing me of things I hadn't done, and you already had your short fuse ignited. All the same, here I am trying to clear at least some of the air after the shit has hit the proverbial fan.
If there's OOC going on and I can find it, I try to stamp it out. I've already (since I've been back) been told to back off on a couple of infractions for various rules violations that I've wanted to bring the hammer down for, but if it takes cracking the whip on some rule breakers to try and make it fairer for everyone, so be it.
Whether you stay or go in the long run won't matter much to me, if I'm being honest. I like your characters for the most part (what I see of them, anyway) but your flash-in-the-pan, flavor-of-the-week attitude and throwing accusations at the first sign of adversity needs work. If you'd stick it out with one instead of giving up so quickly, it might be more rewarding in the long run.
I wish you the best regardless, but don't ever fucking accuse me of something again unless you've got a smoking gun. I've given too much time with no reward to take that baseless shit from you or anyone.
Glorbag 0 , 0 , 0 . On a side not, religions are allowed to be one axis off. So Glorbag being neutral evil can most certainly follow a chaotic evil or even lawful evil deity. You were trying to apprehend a fellow follower and I stepped in, neutral evils will do anything that helps them IE using laws and allies alike, pretty sure that is stated in the helpfile. Being neutral evil doesn’t mean I can’t break laws especially when I’m trying to kill the person trying to kill another follower of my deity. Arunore 
1 , 0 , 0 . Sounds like a GlorBag kind of thing to say. Vanisse 
2 , 0 , 0 . The chaotic vs neutral behavior question is exactly what happened with Yngfre. Dunno about anyone else but I didn't realize Yngfre was neu/neu until waaaaaaaaaay later. Following chaotic air religion made me think that's what she was. Maybe the whole one-off axis religion selection thing is a little wonky. Nycticora 
0 , 0 , 2 . Vhrael you're such a dickhead I have a hardcoded exception in the code to prevent you from slaying ceridwel every time you log in Vhrael 
1 , 0 , 1 . Nyct, how you have "hardcoded anything" still present in the game is completely baffling to me. You are nothing but toxic and divisive, and if it were up to me I'd have banned you from the forum and game already for your constant negative behavior. You are irrelevant, you add zero constructive value to the game, and until you begin to show any sense of self-awareness for your horrible attitude and childish behavior I'll continue to think so.
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[reply to Vhrael]I've had extremely limited interaction with you over the years, yet you have this extremely infantile attitude toward me. As for Ceridwel, he got pissed off at me because he was working on coding something and I slayed him. I apologized. It was a joke, and a prank that I've had pulled on me hundreds of times over the years, and I didn't think anything of it. He didn't lose con, didn't lose equipment, he just got disrupted and was understandably upset. That was well after you left, so again, how you "hardcoded" something into the game after that one-time incident is baffling to me.
I really wish you could reach a point of maturity as an adult to either decide to move on away from this game and its community completely, or that you want to be a constructive, positive influence instead of trying actively to destroy and dismantle it. If you want to start your own AR clone, do it already. Just shut your fucking negative mouth already, you look pitiful and pathetic and nobody wants to hear it anymore.
[reply to Mikoos]
BlackWidow 
2 , 0 , 3 . I'm also not in the official Discord nor do I have any desire to be in it. Arunore 
5 , 0 , 0 . Yeah im in there. I will switch my name to arunore
[reply to Kalist19]I enjoy the discord group, lot of good food recipes and general talk about non-game stuff. There is game talk, but nothing ooc or anything. I feel like we're growing together as an awesome community :)
[reply to Phostan]
Phostan 
0 , 0 , 1 . Kind of feels like you try to reach out to a lot of players for that sort of thing. Hardly the first time it's ever happened with a player organizing stuff, hardly be the last. Not going to shit on you for it, I feel as time goes by and you get more confident about your skills, you'll rely on that option less and less.
[reply to Bladefury]Trovo 0 , 0 , 0 . Woah buddy, I don't know anything about circle jerks. I fly solo, hombre. Ozaru 
0 , 0 , 0 . Sure coincidences do happen I have been on the beneficial side of them a few times, but i have been on the shitty side of them and apparent ooc shit too many times. Why wouldn't I ever want to play a game when some immortals work together to target a specific player. They aren't testing me to see if I can ever become elite, they simply want to ruin my fun. So yes I am giving up because I simply don't want to deal with it anymore. Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . its because they think you can beat 3 of them in one go because guard and dagnir Flinnegan 2 , 2 , 0 . Being in a cabal is a crutch Ozaru, you've got to fly solo every now and then, and spread your wings. Ethaac 0 , 0 , 0 . Some of the most fun I've had playing AR is with non-caballed characters (like this one). Erlwith 
0 , 0 , 0 . I haven't had a cabal char in years. Maybe the last was my disgraced forsaken hah. It is much more fun not being told what to do and how to do it. Then again, judging by what I see now people in cabals don't really follow the cabal rules anyway. Xenyar 
1 , 0 , 0 . Erlwith, could that be...Occuilus? I liked that guy, That's when I actually played xenyar and was a dreadlord under you at that time.
Erlwith 
0 , 0 , 0 . Yes it was ! I liked Xenyar a lot and have always had respect for your PK since you whooped ass with a drow warrior :P
[reply to Merlandox]Sorry for the threadjack.
Resume shitstorm.
If there's an issue, he can look into it that players account.
There no reason at all for imms to even have access to that shit anyways.
I need to see who's playing in my cabal. No you don't. If the character does just fine, then wtf does it matter? If the char fucks up, then boot em.
Faelon 
2 , 0 , 1 . This.
Vhrael 
2 , 0 , 0 . I understand the sentiment/idea you're going for, but the other part of this is simple: we don't have one (or even two, for that matter) imms who have the ability to stay logged 24/7 or comb through data for said 24/7 period of time to be able to catch all rules violations. It takes everyone doing his/her part contributing to the imm staff as a whole to make things work.
Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . We (meaning the implementors) are discussing what we want to do internally about it. I'll make sure you hear the decision. While saying that, we shouldn't discount the facts that he has a five year record of throwing annoying temper tantrums and making baseless accusations. That's what a narcissist does. After years spent driving people crazy and wasting loads of energy on bullshit, they play the "gotcha" card then say thank you I'm leaving. We are better off without it. Kornhole 
2 , 0 , 0 . I am SOOOO happy that I never try to think about who is playing what character. I hate that playing today I had my first thought of "I wonder if this might be (Player X)" All this talk of who plays who actually made me ponder it, and it made me disgusted. I think limiting the ability to see WHO plays what character is of PARAMOUNT importance, because it takes active thought and lots of energy to truly remain IC, and not even try to think of who is playing what character, and I would venture to say that the more people that have access to that information exponentially increases the possibility for abuse of said information. Just my two cents. Fuck people who hate on other players, and double fuck those who hate on characters because the think they know who plays them. Triple fuck pieces of dog shit who actually know who plays who, and then hate on their characters because of it. Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . I don't really share that sort of view Kornhole. I think its more like this. You put a tool in the hand of somebody and they will use it whatever way that makes sense to them. There is the saying that power corrupts but its really more the case that you see power used in ways that particular person feels ethically ok with doing. You get to learn something about that person's character that way. Also, its my experience that most players (including the imms) take apparent inaction from other imms / implementors as a nod to whatever they are doing is fine. These things always tend to end in a blowout rather than getting nipped in the bud. We need to acknowledge we fucked up and correct the mistake, not really very helpful to point fingers and have witch hunts after the fact.
Xenyar 
0 , 0 , 0 . I agree with your example with the mana shield thing. But, I give a hard disagree with the relevancy or correlation to the issue at hand...And feel like it's an attempt at sugar coating the fact something was abused by imms that negatively impacted(fucked) a player/players. Kedaleam 
0 , 0 , 0 . I quite literally see this as "Imps only can catch cheaters". I just want to voice this. Take advantage of it or not. Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . I can relate to that demand because I was extremely angry a few days ago and came pretty close to doing that actually. But I think pretty much all us higher-ups agreed it is bad judgment and that the particular command shouldn't be in the hands of *ANY* lower level imm. There isn't really any sentiment among us to publically humiliate people. Its not going to produce a positive outcome so its just not worth it. Xenyar 
1 , 0 , 0 . I expect for the AR to never know who cheated against them. Vevier 
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[reply to Xenyar]I think there is a crutch in place, that gets relied on to a certain extent (and I can show cuts from GY posts, if needs be to prove this). As humans we are totally unable to move past our own biases. We get phrases like;
"Oh, I knew it was you but..." or "I saw you really trying this time..."
Those are sure indications of having information, which is irrelevant, and a bias will surely follow.
With that in mind, there would need to be some other imm/imp in the know, simply for rule breaking. Perhaps a single enforcement imm/imp, who also has that information responsible for enforcement of repeat rulebreakers etc...
Everyone who's of a certain rank and who has access to the in-game information they do, has said access and rank for a reason. They've been given a certain level of trust by Dav or other implementors because they've shown they can be trusted. If there's abuse of that trust, it can be remedied on an individual basis (demotion, deny, ban, skill strip, whatever depending on the severity). I don't think blanket nerfs are going to help us better police our current playerbase.
Here's a different but relatable topic. There was recently a change to a stave that casts mana shield, which has been in the game for seven years, and identified and plainly in view in the codex for at least three years . You have the area it was in reviewed multiple times by multiple imms. It survived all that scrutiny. Sometimes it just takes a great player to show you that a tool is bad for the game. That player definitely doesn't deserve punishment though. He didn't put the tool in the game. He didn't leave it in the game for seven years not doing anything about it. He didn't use it in bad faith. Everyone who was an imm at any period in the last seven years and said nothing has really no place to be screaming at a player. Mistakes were made, just correct the item and apologize right.
By now its clear that we still need way more time to decide what to do about the immortal commands, so I have for now triaged it. I upped this command's access to implementor-only (level 60) use. Nobody any lower on the totem pole has any access to this anymore.
Which, I don't necessarily blame you for. Because you want to show support for your imms, while at the same time trying to show the community you're taking the steps to correcting this problem. A balancing act to make everybody content. That shit ain't easy.
So, for Ozaru.
Let us start with this. Names.
Staying in the shadows WILL leave a bad taste in the mouth of the community. Cheating and hiding....and then not having to completely face the music?
Weak Sauce.
[reply to Nycticora]
Vevier 
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[reply to Nycticora]