Conundo enjoyed the basic things as a youngling he spent his time away
from home because his parents were less than kind. If he failed in his
studies his mother who was a cleric would commune small bolts to zap him
with and this struck fear into the young dwarfs heart. He grew up hating
any type of magic and has sworn it off for all of time.
Description:
Standing no taller than a bar stool and as wide as an old oak stump a
dwarf with a bright red beard is here. His stumpy limbs are thick and
corded with muscle, every move causing ripples. His hands look a bit dirty,
they are callused and his fingernails are short and stubbly. He has a red
beard that goes down to about his knees, it is tucked into his belt.
1- 0- 0 Olot the Furious (Fought at rank 45) 4- 1- 0 Karea the Sage of Arcane Power (Fought at rank 50) 16- 7- 0 Morgarl the Volcano of Infinite Rage (Fought at rank 50) 4- 0- 0 Jyrdivar the Sage of Arcane Power (Fought at rank 50) 3- 0- 0 Abaddon the Grand Master of Larceny (Fought at rank 50) 2- 1- 0 Kalem the Stalker of the Living (Fought at rank 50) 7- 1- 0 Feradus the Grand Hierophant of the Forest (Fought at rank 50) 2- 0- 0 Aceradus the Unholy Knight (Fought at rank 50) 10- 5- 0 Daorisk the Grand Master of Seasons (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Iori the Grand Hierophant of the Forest (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Legav the Grand Master of Seasons (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Adabon the Grand Master of Larceny (Fought at rank 50) 1- 2- 0 Ijigoshk the Grand Master of Larceny (Fought at rank 50) 2- 0- 0 Lolath the Holy Knight (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Ziannor the Sage of Arcane Power (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Kaareg the Holy Patriarch of Healing (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Nefelus the Stalker of the Living (Fought at rank 50) 4- 0- 0 Zathla the Grand Spectre of Beguilement (Fought at rank 50) 2- 0- 0 Kiralia the Battlemaster (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Fef the Wrath of Nature (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Trelanya the Holy Patriarch of Healing (Fought at rank 50) 4- 0- 0 Tregane the Gladiator of Gore (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Cirem the Grand Hierophant of the Forest (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Cordio the Holy Patriarch of Healing (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Urgria the Holy Shaman (Fought at rank 50) 1- 2- 0 Lorec the Grand Master of Seasons (Fought at rank 50) 5- 2- 0 Kaa the Grand Master of Seasons (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Ethaac the Grand Spectre of Beguilement (Fought at rank 50) 5- 3- 0 Trauc the Volcano of Infinite Rage (Fought at rank 50) 8- 1- 0 Yngfre the Grand Master of Larceny (Fought at rank 50) 3- 0- 0 Tarak the Wrath of Nature (Fought at rank 50) 1- 1- 0 Molrog the Holy Shaman (Fought at rank 50) 2- 0- 0 Ssarthok the Conqueror of Conflict (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Snicklefritz the Battlemaster (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Vyras the Unseen (Fought at rank 50) 0- 1- 0 Gadriel the Stalker of the Living (Fought at rank 50) 2- 0- 0 Naerhzhor the Sage of Arcane Power (Fought at rank 50) 0- 3- 0 Eurayel the Unholy Knight (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Xalnoch the Grand Master of Larceny (Fought at rank 50) 2- 6- 0 Edebayo the Wrath of Nature (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Kauw the Grand Master of Seasons (Fought at rank 50) 2- 0- 0 Trovo the Holy Knight (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Kelili the Sage of Arcane Power (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Ruk the Wrath of Nature (Fought at rank 50) 1- 2- 0 Oakenst the Battlemaster (Fought at rank 50) 3- 0- 0 Ailmar the Sage of Arcane Power (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Kilvar the Volcano of Infinite Rage (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Xaltor the Tower of Strength (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Gamin the Tower of Strength (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Dzaela the Grand Master of Larceny (Fought at rank 50) 1- 0- 0 Cinnon the Grand Hierophant of the Forest (Fought at rank 50) 2- 0- 0 Lucith the Holy Patriarch of Healing (Fought at rank 50) 0- 1- 0 Declan the Battlemaster (Fought at rank 50)
Lol, huge mouth, a decent fighter. Had a pretty good record, gave up way too soon. This could have easily been a halls character had you of stuck to it. You were approaching 100 duels, and not much farther and you would have had 100+ wins... a pity.
Davairus
1 , 1 , 0 .
That character has 563 hours and over a year old so I'm not sure where you are coming from with the "way too soon" thing. Might be in top 20 most hours logged and more than some Imms probably have.
Solid fighter. Very active at the time. RP was extremely sporadic. Sometimes it was there, but most of the time it wasn't. Something to improve on there is just trying to be more consistent with it.
I generally liked the character, but he also drove me crazy quite a few times.
i wanted to keep this character going but i got into a bad accident and i couldn't log in, im super sad i lost my character i was shooting for 100+ wins
Wow, I wasn't expecting this. I'm sorry to see you go. I was so happy for you when you made leader, I saw so much improvement across the life of this character, and man so many duels over 100 wins. And here I was looking forward to fighting you with my new char to boot. Good luck with everything you do next and hope things get better for you.
Oh and before I forget, Exalted no question. You deserve it.
Man. A lot of real emotion goes into deleting this character. I am especially greatful to immortals specifically lorne olyn dav and nycticora. Without these immortals nothing I have accomplished would have came to be.
I have chosen to delete this time to avoid another inactive delete my life has gone in a crazy direction and I'm just unable to devote the time needed to be a leader or even be present more than a few hours. It makes me sad but I feel like its bettet time than any.
Special shout out to of course Daorisk you were my second hand man I came to you for advice and for guidance on many occasions and its helped me temper who my character wanted to be. Secondly kara you were my partner in crime. Trelanya kelili as well i also want to commend a few chars for their battle prowess ijigoshk vya edebayo you guys are the steel that sharpens steel in the PK world.
Love ya guys I'll be back when the time is right. Stay frosty cause one day your gonna die and question if it was me or not
Well, I have been sitting back and trying to figure out what I want to say here... I certainly spent a lot of time around Conundo as both Karea and Trauc.
Some of the best moments with Conundo were when I was playing Karea... And some of the not so pleasant ones. Summoning Zaikkra was cool... Having him disappear before we could finish him, not so much. I still recall some of the friendly teasing that happened between Karea and Conundo... One time I cast jet steam at Conundo to send an IC message not to piss me off. On the other hand... There was one time when I was obviously out of it when I logged in one evening... I had been to a party and I was drunk and it was pretty obvious something was off based on how I was acting (I knew I was in no state to be attempting to obtain equipment with how impaired my reflexes were and had a hard time explaining this).
Trauc was also fun. I enjoyed having Conundo as a superior, mentor, and brother-at-arms. He would sometimes give me hints of what to do during fights, for example telling me when it was time to rage... My favourite duel with him, I was in Malicious Beast in the Arena, badly hurt, and I managed to turn around a losing battle with a well-timed rage (I was stunned at the end but I still managed to win).
There were other characters who interacted with him, but those were the main two. All in all, Conundo was a solid character.
Bladefury BANNED
0 , 0 , 0 .
karea was my favorite character out of everyone I came into contact with her and I could spend 6 hours doing everything and anything we wanted or just sitting around bullshitting. I was glad to have her.
BlackWidow
1 , 1 , 0 .
PS. With his record and longevity I vote for the HoE.
Ergorion
0 , 0 , 0 .
The Zaikkra in the sewers is meant to disappear. But it doesn't disappear forever, just moves to a different place in the realms. Think cold and hard to get to. ;)
Bladefury BANNED
0 , 0 , 0 .
Lmao we cleared the baron wilderness all the way to where zaikkra goes and we killed her half way and then she went away after that when we were healing since it was just her and I
BlackWidow
0 , 0 , 1 .
I'm aware, Ergorion. The frustrating part was the fact that when I got back up there to where Conundo was (having gotten Zaikkra to big and nasty wounds in the Sewers), Zaikkra was gone from that temple at the top of the Barren Wilderness. All that time spent gathering the summoning stones led to him leaving on us.
I mean, it is premature to move someone to exalted after two votes that were his bff's. If you and Lorne feel he is though, I wont complain after that.
Also, someone needs a beating for approving a description with four lines imo. I'll take partial blame for not re-reading someone else approval.
Bladefury BANNED
0 , 0 , 0 .
I have never been 100 percent the best rper or the best writer or someone who even uses the right word sometimes so I understand Euv feelings on the matter.
Bladefury BANNED
1 , 2 , 0 .
But I gave it my all and tried so hard with conundo I can't have everyone's vote I only care about a few peoples opinions. Thanks for yours Euv
Mikoos
1 , 0 , 1 .
Was Faelon even around for the majority of Conundo’s life?
@BF Your warlord seemed alright, but not HoE worthy. Also feels like delete contagion which is lame. And hi Ozaru, bye Ozaru. Someone bring back beia and the gang’s all here.
I'm glad you finally made a Warlord that I think you truly enjoyed. Being a competent dwarf warrior is no joke. Good job bladefurry, you definitely earned that Warmaster promotion.
HoE.
Bladefury BANNED
1 , 1 , 0 .
Thank you Lorne I had a blast and can't wait to have time to roll another
Whaaaat, no way, this dude does not deserve HOE. No offense Bladefury, but Conundo DID NOT consistently roleplay and when you did go OOC you went teenage schoolgirl bitch crazy. You were also a questionable Warlord at best when it came to being on the outside of the cabal and that was seen over and over with the way you acted with Vya.
Also, look at his description and background. They are absolutely BARE MINIMUM with little thought or effort behind history.
I'm not trying to take away from you as a player. You're decent at pk and had a good record on this guy (although you padded alot), but you're missing key ingredients to be in HOE.
Man, we've really gone Hello Kitty.
Kedaleam
4 , 0 , 2 .
I'll agree here, as it was stated in my first comment when it inactivited before. Did solid, but the RP was WAYY too inconsistent.
We've went down this road with past characters. But it seems nobody ever learns. Why, why we can't just be patient and give the AR community a chance to comment? The AR family's opinion on the matter was tossed out the window with a knee-jerk move-to-exalted decision when there was literally only 2 HoE votes in. 2. I mean come on, 2? Seriously...what's the rush?
There needs to be a mandatory time(5 days, a week?) before any char is even able to be moved to the best of the best, excellent RP, a name that stands out for all time, Halls of Exalted.
Resatimm should sit on all of you.
Vevier
6 , 0 , 5 .
i am inclined to agree with Thorgoth. RP was not consistent, background and description are sub-par. I was hoping to see better after we brought you back, but my vote would be against HOE. That place should be reserved for an actual epic character, not someone who OOC'd with a small group of people to get rared-out then padded his record by forcing people to fight when they weren't prepared.
Ozaru
2 , 1 , 2 .
DAT PART ^
Lorne
2 , 4 , 0 .
Lol Vevier is still crying over the forced dueling. Salt bae.
Vevier
2 , 0 , 4 .
Calling something out as not HoE behavior isn't being salty lol. Also I'm clearly not alone.
Wouldn't know anything about the pk abilities because the two characters I had to interact with you, you tried to force a duel on me immediately after hitting level 50 and I ducked out on because, well, I just hit level 50. Than I made a character I actually wanted to fight you with and the day before I hit level 50 with him, was the last time you logged in before your inactivity delete. Conundo 2.0 I had no interactions with.
Alright, here we go again. First off let me start with I am not the one who placed the Exalted tag on this character even though I voted him so.(Didn’t see that Faelon claimed it when I wrote this) My vote by itself is certainly not enough. Now let me explain my feelings on this. If you do not have an exalted character already your opinion does not matter, only the IMM's and other exalted should be voting whether someone is exalted or not.
Conundo don't take this drag down to heart, people get upset about what they will. You did a fantastic job on this character. I saw so much improvement across the life of this character, and THAT is what gave you my vote. Now, I accused you of padding your record occasionally myself but that really doesn't mean anything. What does a warlord do? They duel. How do you help your warlords get better? You kick their ass and then tell them what to do better and then wash rinse try again. You certainly did that. When you started this character, I thought you were an idiot, and I realized early on who you were. Then you began to take my advice (Daorisk) all in game, and I watched you improve. The nonsense with Vya almost had us fighting to the death because I disagreed, and I told you so publicly. You would have been the only Warlord I death-marked and tried to kill. Your roleplay at the beginning was terrible, but over the life of Conundo you did slowly improve. I recommended that you write an additional background, but you didn’t take that advice. Straight up the reason you got my vote was because of your improvement. You took a character that I thought was trash, built a better reputation and you learned. You also won over 100 duels. That is HOE worthy if nothing else is.
As far as forcing people to fight when they weren’t prepared, haven’t there been a lot of hello kitty comments? If you don’t like it, be prepared or be better at running away. No one would have complained had he of been a legion steam rolling people (Except that would have). When HOE came around there were lots of reasons to give someone HOE. The biggest guideline is memorable. Who sticks out in your mind and will be remembered for a long time. Well Conundo certainly will be remembered for a long time, in fact I suspect no one will come close to his record for a few years to come. (Simply because even if you are good enough it takes a year or more to fight that many fights.)
Nadrins recap....Your RP sucked, you were trash, you obviously needed a real background but didn't put the EFFORT into it. A lot of shit you needed to fix, most of it didn't, some improved over time.
"Straight up the reason you got my vote was because of improvement."
Improvement votes for HoE? What is this, Halls of Participation Trophy? Embarrassing.
Granted, there is a couple that already don't belong in there, but it doesn't mean we should add to it.
Mkatos, Ygin, Uvet, Raviniah, Rigwarl, Zelbin, Dhua, Taurth, and sooooo many more RPing worthy list of names in HoE that Conundo will be beside? Please. We have to draw a line in the sand somewhere and put a stop to this. It is an outrage to the integrity of HoE, and why HoE was created.
Faelon, you should be ashamed of yourself for moving this to the HoE. Straight up ashamed.
#1weekwaitingperiodtomovetoHOE
#maybeevenremoveemissariesfrommovingcharstoHOE (That's for Faelon, and you too Nadrin because you did the same damn thing faelon did just a few years ago with that invoker.)
And here's a Matrix quote from that gravestone btw:
"marking him exalted before the discussion was over was premature, there is no rush on this stuff and you'll start a shit storm"
Learn, people. Frickin learn.
Lorne
2 , 4 , 0 .
Who is this guy? I can never take seriously to any anonymous posting bullshit, when you have yet to state any real interactions with this character in game.
Oooh, Lorney. My points are made, and quite valid. Conundo is not, without a shadow of a doubt, HoE. And yes, I have chars that have interacted with him well over a year ago.
He's not a terrible character at all, he was decent. Above average fighting abilities, below average RP a majority of the time. Description and background that no effort went into, and my 7 year old nephew could have slapped together in minutes.
HoE is sacred. Elites, RP at the forefront. Conundo, just doesn't have that.
Also, Dav, read Thorgoth's gravestone comments on Conundo. Making a comment mid-way a chars lifespan is not by any means their vote for HoE. Which, as you see by his gravestone comments, and contrary to the point you are trying to cherry pick, is NOT a HoE vote.
Davairus
1 , 3 , 0 .
That's not how the HOE works. Anyone with a blue / skull can apply the #exalted tag. There is no voting system for it. Its just being trusted with blue. Faelon probably read Nadrin's post (very strong) and felt sufficiently strong agreement with that. Obviously Lorne does too. That's plenty.
This is not a complicated voting system, and only I can overturn that decision and I choose not to do it.
Davairus
1 , 2 , 0 .
Also ---
Davairus - 3 years ago
"Currently, all emissaries are trusted with the power to make people exalted. You don't have to impress all of them. There is a cross-section of people in emissary, so different stuff is going to impress people or maybe not impress them at all."
I already explained this twice, including in the original thread you pulled matrix quotes out of context from. This makes it interesting you would say i was cherry picking
Well, you are just plain wrong Davairus. And the whole other couple of you. And, I guarantee almost everything I've said on this thread is what the vast, vast majority is thinking(not 2 or 3 people) and just not saying to not make the shitstorm bigger. Guarantee it. Guaranfuckintee it.
Here is exactly what the Halls of Exalted have been "graced" with over the past few years due to a couple peoples opinions(not the majority, by all means).
-Shit Rp
-Shit pk(which is ok if you have elite RP)
-2month flash-in-the-pan chars.
Seriously, is this what HoE is meant to be? No. Hell no.
And you are advocating that.
The sanctity of the Halls is tainted. And you are ok with it.
Davairus
1 , 1 , 0 .
It doesn't matter if its an unpopular decision that the vast majority doesn't like. It is up to the emissaries and there is an implementor veto, which I have never used. You seem to forget I can pull up literally a rap sheet of everybody in the hall of elite and find dirt on them to disqualify them with. You'll get your own opportunity to bandwagon with your, +1 HOE's, YAY's,etc, whenever Yngfre deletes, while I'll be thinking about some stuff that belongs in the past and choosing not to piss on it
Faelon
1 , 1 , 1 .
Want to be super clear here bud:
You can stop speaking to me any time you please. Or not. I really couldn't give two shits less what your opinion is, so the most your doing is talking to yourself.
Well the character was a custom-titled Warmaster cabal leader of Warlords, I'm going to take that at face value that was probably very difficult to get and being bladefurry doesn't do him any favors.
I have logged this character's entire history since January so feel free to bring up any incidents.
An Immortal tells you 'Are you going to challenge her to a duel or just chatter like grannies?'
Haha
Here is another two obvious big "votes":
-Thorgoth@Conundo:Fri Dec 20 02:09:08 2019
this dude is amazing and should be celebrated.
Lorne@Conundo:Mon Feb 24 04:31:24 2020
Conundo was promoted by Lorne. (Warmaster)
Thanks dav. As I said everyone is entitled to their opinion on the matter i appreciate all the feedback I for sure obviously need to work on my role play. I'll take that into account next time.
Thanks for the exalted vote, my exalted character needed better RP? AAAAHHHHH!!!!! Even the characters player agrees his RP needs to be better. THAT IS NOT HOE STATUS, BY HIS OWN MOUTH.
I am completely dumbfounded.
Lorne
3 , 1 , 0 .
Wow, Bladefurry just made one of the most level-headed comments to his own graveyard post, even with Imms and other players taking a big shit all over it and this is your reply?
Man, you need to relax, have a soda in isolation. Sugar-free.
Vevier
4 , 0 , 0 .
Euv is entitled to his opinion - one that I and others agree with. I respect Davairus's decision not to reverse the flag, but a vote against (even late) is not the same as taking a shit on the character. Quite the opposite, as many people said they saw improvement and space for further improvement.
Lorne
2 , 4 , 0 .
Yea, well my opinion is you took a large smelly shit Vevier. Agree to disagree.
Davairus
2 , 0 , 0 .
I'll keep saying it, there is NO VOTE SYSTEM. None. There is not a vote system for the HOE. As in an emissary gets to just tag them in. If you want to leave a vote on a character, there is a cheer/boo/yawn right next to the tag field. I gave Conundo a cheer myself. My way of saying thank you for playing a decent character. My rule of thumb for the hall of the elite is being able to remember the character. I see a strong "boos" response and that says to me that he has elicited a reaction.
Like I said, I have 4 months of logs of Conundo and I skimmed and I don't find any special OOC talk in it. I see him helping newbies with pk'ing advice and shit. Its generally been very good.
And you need stop picking on bladefurry for his rage meltdowns. That behaviors is coming from mental illness that leads to emotional dysregulation. It is discrimination when you pick on people with these illnesses, they are very difficult to live with. Shaming people with mental illness could lead to their suicides. Its incredibly fucked up. This needs to be crystal-fucking clear. Let me know if you have any questions.
Stiehl26
2 , 2 , 2 .
Discrimination is both allowed and encouraged.
Davairus
3 , 0 , 0 .
you dont know the difference between identifying discrimination and responding to trigger phrases like a mob prog. that point has been beaten to death and you will never learn, and you certainly have no intention of ever opening your eyes, i dont want to respond anymore
Oh, I'm relaxed. Just flabbergasted is all...shocked...
He just admitted to not having good enough RP on a falsely exalted character. RP is the essence of Exalted. He wasn't up to par on that like Imms, Emissaries, and so on have stated.
Argue that.
Bladefury BANNED
1 , 0 , 0 .
I actually was just taking everyone elses advice because only a retard ignores 3 people giving the same advice. I even am taking into account what you think. I just wish I knew who the facce behind the mask is.
You're right Dav. we should make excuses for somebody to get into the HoE. Having a bad name years ago is no excuse to let a well known RP lacking char into the HoE today. What, you going to argue that with deflection as well? Nuff said.
I've never played DOTA so the name means squat to me....except one thing , you should hold the IMMS accountable for letting that slip through the cracks. That's on them, and you.
Davairus
0 , 1 , 0 .
We generally don't do renames unless players actually report. That way we dont pull the trigger too hastily. Nobody reported that. That's just the policy. I try very hard to not abuse my privilige.
If you look at the halls of elite nobody was even added for the last two years. Most of the recent additions were only added because bladefurry started the discussions. Like Thamu. I doubt that character would have been HOE without bladefurry to raise the possibility. It seems like otherwise its a bucket of crabs here mostly.
Kalist19
1 , 0 , 0 .
Hey, hey now - Rigwarl was punished for his name by never getting a custom title. I am known for my shitty name selection.. usually somebody makes me rename but with Rigwarl it didn't happen.
I disagree with Nadrin's comment that " If you do not have an exalted character already your opinion does not matter, only the IMM's and other exalted should be voting whether someone is exalted or not."
-I think everybody is entitled to an opinion and I think it's good to see what other people think and the memories/interactions they had with the deleted char. You don't need to be an emissary or immortal to roleplay with someone. You also don't need to be an emissary or immortal to kill someone or die to someone and see how they act afterwards. Even if the system is an 'emissary vote only with implementor veto' (which must have been hashed out after the last major HoE shitstorm?), I think it's important to acknowledge that everybody's opinion matters, even if their name isn't blue or whatever.
This is the HALLS OF THE EXALTED. That is, the Chamber of Heros, Path of Legends, Stairway of the Greatest, Garden Path of the Myths, Suspension Bridge of the Best of the Best of the Best.
Moderation duties for this section and The Graveyard area fall to the Immortal and Emissary groups. Those two groups are responsible for choosing who gets moved INTO the HALLS. The different personalities of the people in those two groups will ensure the proper cross section of the Great, whether they were Paragons of Piety, Roleplayers of Legend, Feared Killers of Renown.
Decisions are final, and will not be overruled in the other cases, except in extreme circumstances where *Implementor* will be the Judge, Jury and Executioner.
TO THOSE THAT HAVE THIS POWER: BE SURE OF YOUR CHOICES. DO NOT TAINT THE WATERS WITH THE UNWORTHY. IF YOU ARE IN DOUBT, THEY DO NOT BELONG.
Kalist19
0 , 0 , 0 .
Nadrin: In your first paragraph you basically explained why we should have an agreed upon, standard approach to determining HoE eligibility.
In your second paragraph, you explain who is responsible for determining who gets in (which is good).
In your third paragraph, you explain EXACTLY WHY it is important to have a "standard" approach - i.e. we should look at creating an agreed upon process (i.e. if someone want's to 'nominate' a char, they start a thread in emissary forum and each person has 7d to comment on it, then if person had X amount of positive comments, they get in). This paragraph also explains exactly why it shouldn't just be up to one person clicking #exalted button 1-2 days after delete (i.e. you say it's a final decision that is extremely unlikely to be reversed so why would that decision be up to one person?). FYI go look in the emissary outpost to see that this nomination process was carried out with Vya.
FYI - I'm not disagreeing with Connundo going in HoE, I just think that the whole process could use some polishing.
so as someone who has absolutely no leaning to either side, it looks like:
- the major cause of upset here stems from one person tagging exalted before anyone else could voice an opinion. it is unclear if the tagger already knew that action would move it to HoE instantly (i didn't)
- putting a wait time on enabling exalted tag allows people to voice their opinion
- if simply first tagger gets to decide, then it does not seem to be a community honor any longer, which was the original point, i thought. but i could be wrong
These are the amount of backgrounds and descs I submit usually whenever I make a char. I think 9/10 of my chars get commended descs, but I am never HoE worthy, not because I put in effort and never break RP but simply because I am not around for a year+ which seems that's all it takes to become a HoE.
Having Conundo as HoE, from the logs and interactions I've seen is AN INSULT to anyone who puts hours into developing their char without going OOC.
Davairus
1 , 0 , 1 .
"From the logs and interactions I've seen" --- that's the key phrase. Remember the audience is largely people who are invested in the logboard, which presents a reliable way to curry favor.
The davair-tatorship is plain wrong. Any one person with a blue name can move to exalted, is wrong. Not letting the community voice it's opinion, is simply wrong.
Just because you'll double down(like you have down for 2 decades) on shit because your too prideful to accept change or admit your shit is wrong and ain't working, is plain wrong. Conundo tainting the Halls, is just plain wrong. Faelon moving him to exalted with 2 votes, is just plain wrong. Moral of the story, you and your broken "no vote" system, Sir Davairus, is plain wrong. So go on keep doubling down with the plain and simple, wrong.
Kalist, nothing got hashed out last HOE shitstorm. Everybody wants the communities opinion to be heard before Hoe induction(Also known as plain fucking LOGIC). and Dav drops the rubber stamp of the davair-tatorship "meh, piss on logic. Move to who exalted whoever you want if your name is blue."
Davairus
4 , 2 , 0 .
There are now 5 confirmed people in this thread who agree that the character belongs in HOE, including one who flipped from a "no" to a yes, along with me saying this doesn't need to be overturned. That should be overwhelming evidence to even the most cynical person of a clear positive signal.
Implementing actual voting would definitely make this into a popularity contest, which it isn't. This is curated by a small hand-picked elite team who tend to steer clear of OOC and playing favorites. Despite that, this is STILL the flung accusation. Anyone could accuse the Immortals of the exact same. So I put the power in the hands of the elite players of the game, and yet you are still unhappy. There isn't a better system. You sit armchair quarterbacking, saying the system isnt perfect. It isn't. But its good enough to be operational.
A curation mechanism is the same procedure by which we choose gilded descriptions. It isn't a vote, its just do the deed and leave comment to explain why. I've had plenty of "who the f approved that" moments when I read the gilded descriptions, so I get it that sometimes other people's decisions makes no rational sense. However, we've seen proof that curated content leads to people trying harder on the descriptions. And its irrefutable - its absolutely without question - that the HOE leads to players like bladefurry and ozaru striving to improve with each character.
Honestly I don't care if I'm HoE or not I didn't ask for any of this. I just want to play a vampire so I can read helpful that I haven't read yet that's all.
Keep in mind, a character in the HoE does not grant you elite status (which is required for vampires and alhoons afaik) in and of itself. Look at Mishtkah... He was one of tayyah's characters who, like Conundo, sparked controversy over being put in the HoE... And I'm pretty sure tayyah doesn't have the elite tag.
Vevier
0 , 0 , 0 .
Thats exactly what HoE does. If a character is in HoW and you dont have the elite tag, let us know so we can update.
I wasn't going to comment on this again, but it has to be brought up again. The ONE person on this thread, who is throwing the BIGGEST fit? Someone who feels the need to hide behind a nobody character. Anonymity is the weapon of trolls and abusers.
You attacked me, you are attacking anyone who disagrees with you, as if you have the ONLY opinion that matters. News flash, your opinion matters to just one person: you. Until you can convince others. If you can convince others, that changes matters. But you aren't convincing anyone of anything that they did not already believe. The most you are doing is ostracizing yourself. Or you would be, if you weren't hiding. Hence, you have a safeguard don't you? You are hidden.
That is the reason why I don't care about your opinion: You aren't willing to stand behind it and own it. Take the consequences for your meltdown.
So it sounds like the goal isn’t to make a HOE character, it’s to be friends with someone who has been so they can vote you in.
Faelon
2 , 1 , 0 .
Bladefurry and I are not friends. Point of fact, we rarely get along in the forums, our only interaction.
And yet another anonymous account.
Bladefury BANNED
0 , 0 , 0 .
I have a good idea who euv is and in nit surprised at how they are acting its always been the same way with them. No surprises with this one.
Davairus
1 , 1 , 0 .
Strakor. The only thing you will get from acquiring a HOE character is the skull badge. That badge indicates that you are elite. The blue posters (the non-Imms) are the decision and policy makers for HOE. They are the logboard royalty - and they know it. However, despite their "authority", even impressing one of them alone still isn't the best way to acquire a HOE spot. If I've seen anything out of the emissary group, its that they are cautious with that endorsement to the point of indecisiveness. To make a mistake is to risk exile. Faelon proceeded safely, knowing Nadrin was going to back him up, as you can see happened, and Nadrin was going to wait even longer.
To assure you are successful, you definitely need to be respectful to the royalty - but you also need cheerleaders. Those are the people you see spamming "+1 HOE!". They will rally and carry you into the halls. So take note of who the more positive people are here, befriend/entertain/defend them, and its possible. A decent Knight or Herald can acquire the support easily. Its harder and therefore more impressive to get it done with an evil character. On the flip side, its important to notice that if the playerbase is behaving like a bucket of crabs, there are not going to be HOE characters, since there is nobody to cheer for them. So thats something we dont want
Davairus
2 , 0 , 0 .
Fun facts. The top cheering patrons of the logboard are bladefurry (by a LOT), tayyah, Nadrin, and then Faelon. Conversely, the biggest booers are stiehl26, blackwidow (as with cheering, second place is pretty distant), and then Xenyar. Ceridwel is by far the most heavily cheering Immortal, but bladefurry crushes everybody's numbers.
I am going to private message bladefurry and we will join forces and take over this game one mediocre character at a time.
Ozaru
1 , 0 , 0 .
But in all seriousness, Conundo had flashes of HOE, he had the longevity and he had good rp in most cases. I could go into detail with a few instances but it isn't necessary. Immortals have said this game is more fun when your friends play, you can't hold it against him that he knows people and they help him get eq. If you are good enough to kill him then u get that equipment especially if you don't have a group to get it. This grave yard needs to get cleaned up and move comments about his HOE out and simply leave comments about the character. Some players are amazing at this game and can run circles around you, the rest of us enjoy it for what it is. Its pretty shitty if we can never get the chance to experience the game completely.
As a general recap. and to calrify. Might as well hit the 100 shitstorm posts......This is not about Bladefurry as the player. I actually believe, he is a big part of the AR community,
and I love having him around. Seriously blade, I really do.
Glad you're here. Glad you made it through the wreck, coma, and all that and came back! But isn't a longevity/popularity /logged a bunch of hours contest. Conundo was around a good while and everybody knew him due to his activity, and because he's the only char to be reactivated in forever... that's not a slight at all. just stating the obvious. His PK record is average(Yep, do math and count. Granted, Faelon might only count to 2 lol). His DUELING record is pretty good...nice job! His RP ranged from nonexistent to
decent, at best. His Description was lazy, at best. His background was lazy, at best. HoE takes EFFORT.
EFFORT is 0 for 3, in RP, background and desc. Is that HoE?
The objective standard of HOE is at the very least having great RP. Zelbins, Cyrprians, Blyx and more...all in HOE because of RP.
@Dav...Thamu was at least highly praised for his astounding RP. The esays, the ecasts, the EFFORT.
""This is the HALLS OF THE EXALTED. That is, the Chamber of Heros, Path of Legends, Stairway of the Greatest,
Garden Path of the Myths, Suspension Bridge of the Best of the Best of the Best.""
Do the "count on one hand" people really consider Conundo(not Bladefury) to that standard listed above? And, is that very very few, seriously enough to add him the the elite? No, it's not enough. Not at all. Well, it shouldn't be. #brokensystem. We already know what the majority of the vast community believes. A few gives a thumbs up.
A List off imms and players cries out wtf, please no!!?? And the rest of the people don't think this char
was even worth logging in here to cast a vote.
Conundo, as Pip put it so eloquently, is "missing key ingredients to be in HOE". Plain and simple.
Dav, you can make excuses for the few, and ignore the vast majority on this. You, are allowing and promoting
the tainting of the Halls of Exalted. Shame on you too.
Davairus
1 , 0 , 1 .
Euv, I know you care strongly about this because you are still going on about it. However there is no magic recipe to be in HOE. Vanisse's suggestion of a timer before the tag can be clicked is good, but I don't see how that would have changed the outcome. You guys would have still had the same shit storm over his character shouldnt be allowed, and then the emissary would still be replying specific reasons aren't why people get in (or don't get in), and maybe even just double down on it to spite you.
* he abused ethereal portals in Winter? So sad, but doesnt stop him getting in HOE. Quickly forgotten, in fact.
* he took heals from shamans? One guy says thats fucked up and warlords shouldnt. another guy says you can get restored to normalcy, thats fine. dont quaff gyvels, but eat bat bones. What is the difference? Why does anyone except a warlord even f'ing care about that.
* he took hastes for winter? One guy says thats fucked up. Another guy says, did he do it in the duels? Was the Warlord cabal EVER clear about this? even the imms cant make up their minds
* he duelled people who didnt feel like it? One person says thats bullying and quits out. Another guy thinks its exciting when a warlord logs in and challenges him irrespective of how many water weapons he has ready . Was the warlord cabal ever strict about that? (no)
* his description is 6 lines? Some of us might say thank god, w'de suffered enough. 25 lines? Lets now just say hes trying to hard. Whats the right number of lines?
* he played less than 50 hours? Flash in the pan. 500 hours? Lets call him a no-life loser. Whats the right amount?
Everybody has a different list of things they value, and a different opinion on them, and negativity is always coming from different reasons, same people
You're right. I do feel strongly about HoE. I find it sacred. And I now find it watered down these past few years. You can muddy it down with there is "no magic recipe".
But, there is one absolute ingredient, and the reason you have a vast majority trying to pick their jaw up off the floor seeing him moved to exalted(Again, prematurely). It's RolePlaying. Conundo's RP was mostly not that great, or just not there. He even admitted he to subpar RP on his HoE gravestone.
Despite that, Conundo is in Exalted. That's a tough pill to swallow for a lot of the AR community. It really is.... just a tough pill to swallow. Truthfully, I feel quite disheartened. For The Abandoned Realms, and the HoE.
Davairus
1 , 0 , 0 .
I don't think it is fair to claim someone's RP is no good without providing any proof.
I have this character logs all the way to January. Everything seems fine from what I viewed, obviously over 4 month of logs is sieving through quite a lot, but the vast majority of what I saw was just chit chat, including helping newbies with fighting questions and the like. Very nice work. And there is no incident to the contrary that anyone has brought up. I didn't see these "teenage meltdowns".
Also I followed up on the only credible allegations of any "OOC'ing", and that turned out to be with the leader of Heralds. Nothing was done about it in-game. Maybe it would be appropriate to uninduct or at least slay them both. But they weren't. Either of them. So thats interesting. I'll be looking closely into that.
Decision has been made, let’s move on. If anything this has shed some light on a process that wasn’t fully vetted and we can move forward to refine it and get better as a community.
Agreed, Thorgoth. "Let's Move on". Davs decision is final.
Conundo, congrats on the HoE votes.
Bladefury, good luck with, and look forward to, your next character.
Bladefury BANNED
0 , 0 , 0 .
Thanka
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
Ok, emissaries, if you think you need process changes, please just come up with something that works for you and I'll find time to help with the coding of it. It would be trivial to add a timed delay to clicking the tag, although I do not really see how it will change anything about behavior, its a very easy addition.
Before we do anything new, let me also just remind you folks one final thing. While its true the exalted tag is a nod from the emissary and gets the character displayed in the HOE section, it seems we've been overlooking one last, crucial detail. The skull badge still requires the Imm staff to apply. Nobody can roll the vampires and alhoons until they get their skull. This is not by accident, its to leave some reasonable time for inquiry.
You can see if you read the thread I did ask repeatedly for examples of "poor RP" and took the unusual long measure of checking 4 months of log. I also literally told bladefury I was logging his character and told him he's under close observation. I'm feeling pretty confident you guys have nothing on him. He has been playing knowing he is held accountable, which is a very effective tool for keeping people IC that normally let things slip. Also, given what I just told you, I would say its a really good idea to stay IC around bladefurrys characters. If he sees you saying and doing shady shit, all he has to do is let the Imms know and they will have seen you doing it minutes later.
Blade, I wanna say something here. You deleted your character because sometimes real life takes a dump on you. You have had grace and humility all through this meanwhile people are taking another dump on you. I applaud you for having a great attitude in spite of all of it. Something the rest of us should strive for.
hamsandwich
5 , 0 , 0 .
I wasn't really a part of all of this at all, but I have read the whole shit show, and I didn't feel inclined to comment until reading this. Nadrin is right, bladefury has defended himself a little, but was still levelheaded throughout. Having been on the receiving end of some vicious forum abuse in the past (like over a decade ago) I know how much it can hurt and how easy it is to go right in to shit flinging mode. So good on him for not doing that.
Hey, everyone. I'm a bit late to the party here, but I thought I'd throw in my thoughts. I don't know if I would have nominated this character for HoE myself, but I definitely don't oppose it.
I didn't have a ton of interactions with this guy post-restore, but I did the first time through. I distinctly remember having a "holy shit, Bladefury is for real now" moment at some point. I think after delete and before restore, I even named the new Seringale forgemaster Conundo in his honor and had to change it up when we brought him back due to those unique circumstances.
I don't think HoE needs to be reserved for the .1%. The near-perfection of characters like Uvet, Mkatos, and Ygin is something that is a level of special that goes well beyond my HoE standard. I'm not suggesting this is a participation trophy, either. Looking at this character objectively, I see a Warlord with an excellent duel record of Duels: 161, Wins: 122, Losses: 39 (Win Rate: 75%), got an imm restore (uber, uber rare), had a mob named after him (that wasn't a tongue-in-cheek reference), was first? (maybe wrong there) Warmaster of modern warlord under Lorne, who was pretty damn stubborn about naming one.
The character deserves to be recognized.
Lorne
2 , 0 , 0 .
That is correct Olyn, he is the first Warmaster I've named since...well me when I was mortal. I admit, I have been very stubborn about naming a Warmaster.
I am notoriously easy on the requirements in the first three levels, then it becomes very hard to reach Blademaster from Proven and hardcore hard to get to Warmaster. I can think of a few Warlords who were probably frustrated with me in thinking they deserved a promotion.
Actually I almost demoted Conundo when he was egging me to promote him much much earlier in his character's career. I had the same realization holy shit realization for Bladefury in this character as well.
Bladefury BANNED
1 , 0 , 0 .
I would have been salty if I got demoted but totally agree with you after i got the warmaster spot it felt like I had a few people asking for promotions and it actually rather annoyed the shit out of me. So I totally would have understood in the long wrong if I got demoted haha. My realization came when I rolled my 1st dwarf warrior gradible furhammer. After him I knew dwarf warrior were my bread and butter. I learned so much over this characters lifetime. From lorne and other warlords alike. My favorite battles go out to edebayo and ijigoshk they posed the most challenge out of anyone ive fought. Ozaru if you would have ay least played for 6-8 months as edebayo you would have had HoE or I at least would have voted for edebayo to get in.
what is posted in this thread plus what people preferred to just privately tell me, if this were trial by jury, we have produced a +9 for, with 3 against, the court of public opinion swayed obviously after one of the jurors chose to jump out of a window. bladefury, we're allowing it. This is an exceptional character by any metric. I know you will take all the feedback and keep improving.
[reply to Qang]
Davairus 1 , 1 , 0 . That character has 563 hours and over a year old so I'm not sure where you are coming from with the "way too soon" thing. Might be in top 20 most hours logged and more than some Imms probably have. Davairus 1 , 0 , 0 . oh this is from the first delete
[reply to Nadrin]I generally liked the character, but he also drove me crazy quite a few times.
[reply to Kedaleam]
[reply to Bladefury]
[reply to Bladefury]
Oh and before I forget, Exalted no question. You deserve it.
[reply to Nadrin]
I have chosen to delete this time to avoid another inactive delete my life has gone in a crazy direction and I'm just unable to devote the time needed to be a leader or even be present more than a few hours. It makes me sad but I feel like its bettet time than any.
Special shout out to of course Daorisk you were my second hand man I came to you for advice and for guidance on many occasions and its helped me temper who my character wanted to be. Secondly kara you were my partner in crime. Trelanya kelili as well i also want to commend a few chars for their battle prowess ijigoshk vya edebayo you guys are the steel that sharpens steel in the PK world.
Love ya guys I'll be back when the time is right. Stay frosty cause one day your gonna die and question if it was me or not
[reply to Bladefury]
[reply to Nadrin]
My vote is in for Exalted and I'm the one who tagged it.
The key for me was longevity, an excellent record, and across multiple characters I either loved or hated you. I like that.
Bladefury BANNED 1 , 0 , 1 . That's one thing I tried to keep consistent with just about everyone. You hated me or loved me no in the middle bs Bladefury BANNED 1 , 0 , 0 . Also thank you for your vote Euv 6 , 1 , 2 . Dude, we have got to quit moving people to halls of exalted with one or two votes. ridiculous.... Nycticora 
3 , 0 , 1 . eat my ass euv
[reply to Faelon]Some of the best moments with Conundo were when I was playing Karea... And some of the not so pleasant ones. Summoning Zaikkra was cool... Having him disappear before we could finish him, not so much. I still recall some of the friendly teasing that happened between Karea and Conundo... One time I cast jet steam at Conundo to send an IC message not to piss me off. On the other hand... There was one time when I was obviously out of it when I logged in one evening... I had been to a party and I was drunk and it was pretty obvious something was off based on how I was acting (I knew I was in no state to be attempting to obtain equipment with how impaired my reflexes were and had a hard time explaining this).
Trauc was also fun. I enjoyed having Conundo as a superior, mentor, and brother-at-arms. He would sometimes give me hints of what to do during fights, for example telling me when it was time to rage... My favourite duel with him, I was in Malicious Beast in the Arena, badly hurt, and I managed to turn around a losing battle with a well-timed rage (I was stunned at the end but I still managed to win).
There were other characters who interacted with him, but those were the main two. All in all, Conundo was a solid character.
Bladefury BANNED 0 , 0 , 0 . karea was my favorite character out of everyone I came into contact with her and I could spend 6 hours doing everything and anything we wanted or just sitting around bullshitting. I was glad to have her. BlackWidow 
1 , 1 , 0 . PS. With his record and longevity I vote for the HoE. Ergorion 
0 , 0 , 0 . The Zaikkra in the sewers is meant to disappear. But it doesn't disappear forever, just moves to a different place in the realms. Think cold and hard to get to. ;) Bladefury BANNED 0 , 0 , 0 . Lmao we cleared the baron wilderness all the way to where zaikkra goes and we killed her half way and then she went away after that when we were healing since it was just her and I BlackWidow 
0 , 0 , 1 . I'm aware, Ergorion. The frustrating part was the fact that when I got back up there to where Conundo was (having gotten Zaikkra to big and nasty wounds in the Sewers), Zaikkra was gone from that temple at the top of the Barren Wilderness. All that time spent gathering the summoning stones led to him leaving on us. Ergorion 
0 , 0 , 0 . oh that sucks.
[reply to BlackWidow][reply to Euv]
Faelon 
3 , 0 , 2 . I love salty people. Kedaleam 
3 , 0 , 0 . I mean, it is premature to move someone to exalted after two votes that were his bff's. If you and Lorne feel he is though, I wont complain after that.
Bladefury BANNED 0 , 0 , 0 . I have never been 100 percent the best rper or the best writer or someone who even uses the right word sometimes so I understand Euv feelings on the matter. Bladefury BANNED 1 , 2 , 0 . But I gave it my all and tried so hard with conundo I can't have everyone's vote I only care about a few peoples opinions. Thanks for yours Euv Mikoos 
1 , 0 , 1 . Was Faelon even around for the majority of Conundo’s life?
[reply to Euv]Also, someone needs a beating for approving a description with four lines imo. I'll take partial blame for not re-reading someone else approval.
@BF Your warlord seemed alright, but not HoE worthy. Also feels like delete contagion which is lame. And hi Ozaru, bye Ozaru. Someone bring back beia and the gang’s all here.
HoE.
Bladefury BANNED 1 , 1 , 0 . Thank you Lorne I had a blast and can't wait to have time to roll another
[reply to Lorne]Also, look at his description and background. They are absolutely BARE MINIMUM with little thought or effort behind history.
I'm not trying to take away from you as a player. You're decent at pk and had a good record on this guy (although you padded alot), but you're missing key ingredients to be in HOE.
Man, we've really gone Hello Kitty.
Kedaleam 
4 , 0 , 2 . I'll agree here, as it was stated in my first comment when it inactivited before. Did solid, but the RP was WAYY too inconsistent. Euv 3 , 1 , 2 . We've went down this road with past characters. But it seems nobody ever learns. Why, why we can't just be patient and give the AR community a chance to comment? The AR family's opinion on the matter was tossed out the window with a knee-jerk move-to-exalted decision when there was literally only 2 HoE votes in. 2. I mean come on, 2? Seriously...what's the rush? Vevier 
6 , 0 , 5 . i am inclined to agree with Thorgoth. RP was not consistent, background and description are sub-par. I was hoping to see better after we brought you back, but my vote would be against HOE. That place should be reserved for an actual epic character, not someone who OOC'd with a small group of people to get rared-out then padded his record by forcing people to fight when they weren't prepared. Ozaru 
2 , 1 , 2 . DAT PART ^ Lorne 
2 , 4 , 0 . Lol Vevier is still crying over the forced dueling. Salt bae. Vevier 
2 , 0 , 4 . Calling something out as not HoE behavior isn't being salty lol. Also I'm clearly not alone.
[reply to Thorgoth]There needs to be a mandatory time(5 days, a week?) before any char is even able to be moved to the best of the best, excellent RP, a name that stands out for all time, Halls of Exalted.
Resatimm should sit on all of you.
[reply to Esivole]
[reply to tayyah]
Conundo don't take this drag down to heart, people get upset about what they will. You did a fantastic job on this character. I saw so much improvement across the life of this character, and THAT is what gave you my vote. Now, I accused you of padding your record occasionally myself but that really doesn't mean anything. What does a warlord do? They duel. How do you help your warlords get better? You kick their ass and then tell them what to do better and then wash rinse try again. You certainly did that. When you started this character, I thought you were an idiot, and I realized early on who you were. Then you began to take my advice (Daorisk) all in game, and I watched you improve. The nonsense with Vya almost had us fighting to the death because I disagreed, and I told you so publicly. You would have been the only Warlord I death-marked and tried to kill. Your roleplay at the beginning was terrible, but over the life of Conundo you did slowly improve. I recommended that you write an additional background, but you didn’t take that advice. Straight up the reason you got my vote was because of your improvement. You took a character that I thought was trash, built a better reputation and you learned. You also won over 100 duels. That is HOE worthy if nothing else is.
As far as forcing people to fight when they weren’t prepared, haven’t there been a lot of hello kitty comments? If you don’t like it, be prepared or be better at running away. No one would have complained had he of been a legion steam rolling people (Except that would have). When HOE came around there were lots of reasons to give someone HOE. The biggest guideline is memorable. Who sticks out in your mind and will be remembered for a long time. Well Conundo certainly will be remembered for a long time, in fact I suspect no one will come close to his record for a few years to come. (Simply because even if you are good enough it takes a year or more to fight that many fights.)
[reply to Nadrin]
"Straight up the reason you got my vote was because of improvement."
Improvement votes for HoE? What is this, Halls of Participation Trophy? Embarrassing.
Granted, there is a couple that already don't belong in there, but it doesn't mean we should add to it.
Mkatos, Ygin, Uvet, Raviniah, Rigwarl, Zelbin, Dhua, Taurth, and sooooo many more RPing worthy list of names in HoE that Conundo will be beside? Please. We have to draw a line in the sand somewhere and put a stop to this. It is an outrage to the integrity of HoE, and why HoE was created.
Faelon, you should be ashamed of yourself for moving this to the HoE. Straight up ashamed.
#1weekwaitingperiodtomovetoHOE
#maybeevenremoveemissariesfrommovingcharstoHOE (That's for Faelon, and you too Nadrin because you did the same damn thing faelon did just a few years ago with that invoker.)
And here's a Matrix quote from that gravestone btw:
"marking him exalted before the discussion was over was premature, there is no rush on this stuff and you'll start a shit storm"
Learn, people. Frickin learn.
Lorne 
2 , 4 , 0 . Who is this guy? I can never take seriously to any anonymous posting bullshit, when you have yet to state any real interactions with this character in game. Euv 5 , 1 , 0 . Oooh, Lorney. My points are made, and quite valid. Conundo is not, without a shadow of a doubt, HoE. And yes, I have chars that have interacted with him well over a year ago.
Davairus 1 , 3 , 0 . That's not how the HOE works. Anyone with a blue / skull can apply the #exalted tag. There is no voting system for it. Its just being trusted with blue. Faelon probably read Nadrin's post (very strong) and felt sufficiently strong agreement with that. Obviously Lorne does too. That's plenty. Davairus 1 , 2 , 0 . Also ---
Euv 3 , 1 , 0 . Well, you are just plain wrong Davairus. And the whole other couple of you. And, I guarantee almost everything I've said on this thread is what the vast, vast majority is thinking(not 2 or 3 people) and just not saying to not make the shitstorm bigger. Guarantee it. Guaranfuckintee it.
Davairus 1 , 1 , 0 . It doesn't matter if its an unpopular decision that the vast majority doesn't like. It is up to the emissaries and there is an implementor veto, which I have never used. You seem to forget I can pull up literally a rap sheet of everybody in the hall of elite and find dirt on them to disqualify them with. You'll get your own opportunity to bandwagon with your, +1 HOE's, YAY's,etc, whenever Yngfre deletes, while I'll be thinking about some stuff that belongs in the past and choosing not to piss on it Faelon 
1 , 1 , 1 . Want to be super clear here bud:
[reply to Euv]He's not a terrible character at all, he was decent. Above average fighting abilities, below average RP a majority of the time. Description and background that no effort went into, and my 7 year old nephew could have slapped together in minutes.
HoE is sacred. Elites, RP at the forefront. Conundo, just doesn't have that.
Also, Dav, read Thorgoth's gravestone comments on Conundo. Making a comment mid-way a chars lifespan is not by any means their vote for HoE. Which, as you see by his gravestone comments, and contrary to the point you are trying to cherry pick, is NOT a HoE vote.
This is not a complicated voting system, and only I can overturn that decision and I choose not to do it.
Davairus - 3 years ago
"Currently, all emissaries are trusted with the power to make people exalted. You don't have to impress all of them. There is a cross-section of people in emissary, so different stuff is going to impress people or maybe not impress them at all."
I already explained this twice, including in the original thread you pulled matrix quotes out of context from. This makes it interesting you would say i was cherry picking
Here is exactly what the Halls of Exalted have been "graced" with over the past few years due to a couple peoples opinions(not the majority, by all means).
-Shit Rp
-Shit pk(which is ok if you have elite RP)
-2month flash-in-the-pan chars.
Seriously, is this what HoE is meant to be? No. Hell no.
And you are advocating that.
The sanctity of the Halls is tainted. And you are ok with it.
You can stop speaking to me any time you please. Or not. I really couldn't give two shits less what your opinion is, so the most your doing is talking to yourself.
I have logged this character's entire history since January so feel free to bring up any incidents.
An Immortal tells you 'Are you going to challenge her to a duel or just chatter like grannies?'
Haha
Here is another two obvious big "votes":
-Thorgoth@Conundo:Fri Dec 20 02:09:08 2019
this dude is amazing and should be celebrated.
Lorne@Conundo:Mon Feb 24 04:31:24 2020
Conundo was promoted by Lorne. (Warmaster)
Euv 2 , 1 , 0 . Being a cabal leader isn't a HoE vote either. If it only it was.... Thorgoth 
2 , 0 , 1 . That comment was in regards to his recovery, not the character.
[reply to Davairus]Euv 1 , 1 , 1 . Thanks for the exalted vote, my exalted character needed better RP? AAAAHHHHH!!!!! Even the characters player agrees his RP needs to be better. THAT IS NOT HOE STATUS, BY HIS OWN MOUTH. Lorne 
3 , 1 , 0 . Wow, Bladefurry just made one of the most level-headed comments to his own graveyard post, even with Imms and other players taking a big shit all over it and this is your reply?
Vevier 
4 , 0 , 0 . Euv is entitled to his opinion - one that I and others agree with. I respect Davairus's decision not to reverse the flag, but a vote against (even late) is not the same as taking a shit on the character. Quite the opposite, as many people said they saw improvement and space for further improvement. Lorne 
2 , 4 , 0 . Yea, well my opinion is you took a large smelly shit Vevier. Agree to disagree. Davairus 2 , 0 , 0 . I'll keep saying it, there is NO VOTE SYSTEM. None. There is not a vote system for the HOE. As in an emissary gets to just tag them in. If you want to leave a vote on a character, there is a cheer/boo/yawn right next to the tag field. I gave Conundo a cheer myself. My way of saying thank you for playing a decent character. My rule of thumb for the hall of the elite is being able to remember the character. I see a strong "boos" response and that says to me that he has elicited a reaction.
Stiehl26 
2 , 2 , 2 . Discrimination is both allowed and encouraged. Davairus 3 , 0 , 0 . you dont know the difference between identifying discrimination and responding to trigger phrases like a mob prog. that point has been beaten to death and you will never learn, and you certainly have no intention of ever opening your eyes, i dont want to respond anymore
[reply to Bladefury]I am completely dumbfounded.
Man, you need to relax, have a soda in isolation. Sugar-free.
Like I said, I have 4 months of logs of Conundo and I skimmed and I don't find any special OOC talk in it. I see him helping newbies with pk'ing advice and shit. Its generally been very good.
And you need stop picking on bladefurry for his rage meltdowns. That behaviors is coming from mental illness that leads to emotional dysregulation. It is discrimination when you pick on people with these illnesses, they are very difficult to live with. Shaming people with mental illness could lead to their suicides. Its incredibly fucked up. This needs to be crystal-fucking clear. Let me know if you have any questions.
He just admitted to not having good enough RP on a falsely exalted character. RP is the essence of Exalted. He wasn't up to par on that like Imms, Emissaries, and so on have stated.
Argue that.
Bladefury BANNED 1 , 0 , 0 . I actually was just taking everyone elses advice because only a retard ignores 3 people giving the same advice. I even am taking into account what you think. I just wish I knew who the facce behind the mask is. Euv 1 , 1 , 0 . It's the HoE standard reinforcing mask of many faces, the Pips, Veviers, Esivoles, Kedeleams, Ozarus and so on... Davairus 0 , 1 , 0 . Euv we have a character in the hoe who is literally named after a DOTA champion that you listed as gold standard
[reply to Euv][reply to Davairus]
I've never played DOTA so the name means squat to me....except one thing , you should hold the IMMS accountable for letting that slip through the cracks. That's on them, and you.
Davairus 0 , 1 , 0 . We generally don't do renames unless players actually report. That way we dont pull the trigger too hastily. Nobody reported that. That's just the policy. I try very hard to not abuse my privilige.
Kalist19 
1 , 0 , 0 . Hey, hey now - Rigwarl was punished for his name by never getting a custom title. I am known for my shitty name selection.. usually somebody makes me rename but with Rigwarl it didn't happen.
Nadrin 1 , 3 , 0 . This is the HALLS OF THE EXALTED. That is, the Chamber of Heros, Path of Legends, Stairway of the Greatest, Garden Path of the Myths, Suspension Bridge of the Best of the Best of the Best.
Kalist19 
0 , 0 , 0 . Nadrin: In your first paragraph you basically explained why we should have an agreed upon, standard approach to determining HoE eligibility.
[reply to Euv]If you look at the halls of elite nobody was even added for the last two years. Most of the recent additions were only added because bladefurry started the discussions. Like Thamu. I doubt that character would have been HOE without bladefurry to raise the possibility. It seems like otherwise its a bucket of crabs here mostly.
I disagree with Nadrin's comment that " If you do not have an exalted character already your opinion does not matter, only the IMM's and other exalted should be voting whether someone is exalted or not."
-I think everybody is entitled to an opinion and I think it's good to see what other people think and the memories/interactions they had with the deleted char. You don't need to be an emissary or immortal to roleplay with someone. You also don't need to be an emissary or immortal to kill someone or die to someone and see how they act afterwards. Even if the system is an 'emissary vote only with implementor veto' (which must have been hashed out after the last major HoE shitstorm?), I think it's important to acknowledge that everybody's opinion matters, even if their name isn't blue or whatever.
Moderation duties for this section and The Graveyard area fall to the Immortal and Emissary groups. Those two groups are responsible for choosing who gets moved INTO the HALLS. The different personalities of the people in those two groups will ensure the proper cross section of the Great, whether they were Paragons of Piety, Roleplayers of Legend, Feared Killers of Renown.
Decisions are final, and will not be overruled in the other cases, except in extreme circumstances where *Implementor* will be the Judge, Jury and Executioner.
TO THOSE THAT HAVE THIS POWER: BE SURE OF YOUR CHOICES. DO NOT TAINT THE WATERS WITH THE UNWORTHY. IF YOU ARE IN DOUBT, THEY DO NOT BELONG.
In your second paragraph, you explain who is responsible for determining who gets in (which is good).
In your third paragraph, you explain EXACTLY WHY it is important to have a "standard" approach - i.e. we should look at creating an agreed upon process (i.e. if someone want's to 'nominate' a char, they start a thread in emissary forum and each person has 7d to comment on it, then if person had X amount of positive comments, they get in). This paragraph also explains exactly why it shouldn't just be up to one person clicking #exalted button 1-2 days after delete (i.e. you say it's a final decision that is extremely unlikely to be reversed so why would that decision be up to one person?). FYI go look in the emissary outpost to see that this nomination process was carried out with Vya.
FYI - I'm not disagreeing with Connundo going in HoE, I just think that the whole process could use some polishing.
- the major cause of upset here stems from one person tagging exalted before anyone else could voice an opinion. it is unclear if the tagger already knew that action would move it to HoE instantly (i didn't)
- putting a wait time on enabling exalted tag allows people to voice their opinion
- if simply first tagger gets to decide, then it does not seem to be a community honor any longer, which was the original point, i thought. but i could be wrong
[reply to Vanisse]
These are the amount of backgrounds and descs I submit usually whenever I make a char. I think 9/10 of my chars get commended descs, but I am never HoE worthy, not because I put in effort and never break RP but simply because I am not around for a year+ which seems that's all it takes to become a HoE.
Having Conundo as HoE, from the logs and interactions I've seen is AN INSULT to anyone who puts hours into developing their char without going OOC.
Davairus 1 , 0 , 1 . "From the logs and interactions I've seen" --- that's the key phrase. Remember the audience is largely people who are invested in the logboard, which presents a reliable way to curry favor.
[reply to maeve]You guys are bigger dorks than I am and that is hella impressive.
[reply to Mikoos]
Just because you'll double down(like you have down for 2 decades) on shit because your too prideful to accept change or admit your shit is wrong and ain't working, is plain wrong. Conundo tainting the Halls, is just plain wrong. Faelon moving him to exalted with 2 votes, is just plain wrong. Moral of the story, you and your broken "no vote" system, Sir Davairus, is plain wrong. So go on keep doubling down with the plain and simple, wrong.
Kalist, nothing got hashed out last HOE shitstorm. Everybody wants the communities opinion to be heard before Hoe induction(Also known as plain fucking LOGIC). and Dav drops the rubber stamp of the davair-tatorship "meh, piss on logic. Move to who exalted whoever you want if your name is blue."
Davairus 4 , 2 , 0 . There are now 5 confirmed people in this thread who agree that the character belongs in HOE, including one who flipped from a "no" to a yes, along with me saying this doesn't need to be overturned. That should be overwhelming evidence to even the most cynical person of a clear positive signal.
[reply to Euv]Implementing actual voting would definitely make this into a popularity contest, which it isn't. This is curated by a small hand-picked elite team who tend to steer clear of OOC and playing favorites. Despite that, this is STILL the flung accusation. Anyone could accuse the Immortals of the exact same. So I put the power in the hands of the elite players of the game, and yet you are still unhappy. There isn't a better system. You sit armchair quarterbacking, saying the system isnt perfect. It isn't. But its good enough to be operational.
A curation mechanism is the same procedure by which we choose gilded descriptions. It isn't a vote, its just do the deed and leave comment to explain why. I've had plenty of "who the f approved that" moments when I read the gilded descriptions, so I get it that sometimes other people's decisions makes no rational sense. However, we've seen proof that curated content leads to people trying harder on the descriptions. And its irrefutable - its absolutely without question - that the HOE leads to players like bladefurry and ozaru striving to improve with each character.
[reply to Bladefury]
[reply to Bladefury]
Vevier 
0 , 0 , 0 . Thats exactly what HoE does. If a character is in HoW and you dont have the elite tag, let us know so we can update.
[reply to BlackWidow]You attacked me, you are attacking anyone who disagrees with you, as if you have the ONLY opinion that matters. News flash, your opinion matters to just one person: you. Until you can convince others. If you can convince others, that changes matters. But you aren't convincing anyone of anything that they did not already believe. The most you are doing is ostracizing yourself. Or you would be, if you weren't hiding. Hence, you have a safeguard don't you? You are hidden.
That is the reason why I don't care about your opinion: You aren't willing to stand behind it and own it. Take the consequences for your meltdown.
[reply to Faelon]
Faelon 
2 , 1 , 0 . Bladefurry and I are not friends. Point of fact, we rarely get along in the forums, our only interaction.
Bladefury BANNED 0 , 0 , 0 . I have a good idea who euv is and in nit surprised at how they are acting its always been the same way with them. No surprises with this one. Davairus 1 , 1 , 0 . Strakor. The only thing you will get from acquiring a HOE character is the skull badge. That badge indicates that you are elite. The blue posters (the non-Imms) are the decision and policy makers for HOE. They are the logboard royalty - and they know it. However, despite their "authority", even impressing one of them alone still isn't the best way to acquire a HOE spot. If I've seen anything out of the emissary group, its that they are cautious with that endorsement to the point of indecisiveness. To make a mistake is to risk exile. Faelon proceeded safely, knowing Nadrin was going to back him up, as you can see happened, and Nadrin was going to wait even longer. Davairus 2 , 0 , 0 . Fun facts. The top cheering patrons of the logboard are bladefurry (by a LOT), tayyah, Nadrin, and then Faelon. Conversely, the biggest booers are stiehl26, blackwidow (as with cheering, second place is pretty distant), and then Xenyar. Ceridwel is by far the most heavily cheering Immortal, but bladefurry crushes everybody's numbers. Bladefury BANNED 0 , 0 , 0 . I didn't know you could keep track of that haha.
[reply to Strakor]And yet another anonymous account.
To assure you are successful, you definitely need to be respectful to the royalty - but you also need cheerleaders. Those are the people you see spamming "+1 HOE!". They will rally and carry you into the halls. So take note of who the more positive people are here, befriend/entertain/defend them, and its possible. A decent Knight or Herald can acquire the support easily. Its harder and therefore more impressive to get it done with an evil character. On the flip side, its important to notice that if the playerbase is behaving like a bucket of crabs, there are not going to be HOE characters, since there is nobody to cheer for them. So thats something we dont want
Ozaru 
1 , 1 , 0 . I am going to private message bladefurry and we will join forces and take over this game one mediocre character at a time. Ozaru 
1 , 0 , 0 . But in all seriousness, Conundo had flashes of HOE, he had the longevity and he had good rp in most cases. I could go into detail with a few instances but it isn't necessary. Immortals have said this game is more fun when your friends play, you can't hold it against him that he knows people and they help him get eq. If you are good enough to kill him then u get that equipment especially if you don't have a group to get it. This grave yard needs to get cleaned up and move comments about his HOE out and simply leave comments about the character. Some players are amazing at this game and can run circles around you, the rest of us enjoy it for what it is. Its pretty shitty if we can never get the chance to experience the game completely.
[reply to jaran][reply to Bladefury]
2 votes in not moving with "caution". In fact, it's quite the opposite. That's premature.
Bladefury BANNED 0 , 2 , 0 . Can you please just pound salt already. Take it to ideas suggestions or take it somewhere else cause it's kinda getting annoying. Thank you. Bladefury BANNED 0 , 2 , 0 . Or take it to the wasteland and make a post say what you really mean.
[reply to Euv]and I love having him around. Seriously blade, I really do.
Glad you're here. Glad you made it through the wreck, coma, and all that and came back! But isn't a longevity/popularity /logged a bunch of hours contest. Conundo was around a good while and everybody knew him due to his activity, and because he's the only char to be reactivated in forever... that's not a slight at all. just stating the obvious. His PK record is average(Yep, do math and count. Granted, Faelon might only count to 2 lol). His DUELING record is pretty good...nice job! His RP ranged from nonexistent to
decent, at best. His Description was lazy, at best. His background was lazy, at best. HoE takes EFFORT.
EFFORT is 0 for 3, in RP, background and desc. Is that HoE?
The objective standard of HOE is at the very least having great RP. Zelbins, Cyrprians, Blyx and more...all in HOE because of RP.
@Dav...Thamu was at least highly praised for his astounding RP. The esays, the ecasts, the EFFORT.
""This is the HALLS OF THE EXALTED. That is, the Chamber of Heros, Path of Legends, Stairway of the Greatest,
Garden Path of the Myths, Suspension Bridge of the Best of the Best of the Best.""
Do the "count on one hand" people really consider Conundo(not Bladefury) to that standard listed above? And, is that very very few, seriously enough to add him the the elite? No, it's not enough. Not at all. Well, it shouldn't be. #brokensystem. We already know what the majority of the vast community believes. A few gives a thumbs up.
A List off imms and players cries out wtf, please no!!?? And the rest of the people don't think this char
was even worth logging in here to cast a vote.
Conundo, as Pip put it so eloquently, is "missing key ingredients to be in HOE". Plain and simple.
Dav, you can make excuses for the few, and ignore the vast majority on this. You, are allowing and promoting
the tainting of the Halls of Exalted. Shame on you too.
Davairus 1 , 0 , 1 . Euv, I know you care strongly about this because you are still going on about it. However there is no magic recipe to be in HOE. Vanisse's suggestion of a timer before the tag can be clicked is good, but I don't see how that would have changed the outcome. You guys would have still had the same shit storm over his character shouldnt be allowed, and then the emissary would still be replying specific reasons aren't why people get in (or don't get in), and maybe even just double down on it to spite you.
Euv 2 , 1 , 2 . You're right. I do feel strongly about HoE. I find it sacred. And I now find it watered down these past few years. You can muddy it down with there is "no magic recipe". Davairus 1 , 0 , 0 . I don't think it is fair to claim someone's RP is no good without providing any proof.
Bladefury BANNED 0 , 0 , 0 . OOC'ing never happened.
[reply to Euv]* he abused ethereal portals in Winter? So sad, but doesnt stop him getting in HOE. Quickly forgotten, in fact.
* he took heals from shamans? One guy says thats fucked up and warlords shouldnt. another guy says you can get restored to normalcy, thats fine. dont quaff gyvels, but eat bat bones. What is the difference? Why does anyone except a warlord even f'ing care about that.
* he took hastes for winter? One guy says thats fucked up. Another guy says, did he do it in the duels? Was the Warlord cabal EVER clear about this? even the imms cant make up their minds
* he duelled people who didnt feel like it? One person says thats bullying and quits out. Another guy thinks its exciting when a warlord logs in and challenges him irrespective of how many water weapons he has ready . Was the warlord cabal ever strict about that? (no)
* his description is 6 lines? Some of us might say thank god, w'de suffered enough. 25 lines? Lets now just say hes trying to hard. Whats the right number of lines?
* he played less than 50 hours? Flash in the pan. 500 hours? Lets call him a no-life loser. Whats the right amount?
Everybody has a different list of things they value, and a different opinion on them, and negativity is always coming from different reasons, same people
But, there is one absolute ingredient, and the reason you have a vast majority trying to pick their jaw up off the floor seeing him moved to exalted(Again, prematurely). It's RolePlaying. Conundo's RP was mostly not that great, or just not there. He even admitted he to subpar RP on his HoE gravestone.
Despite that, Conundo is in Exalted. That's a tough pill to swallow for a lot of the AR community. It really is.... just a tough pill to swallow. Truthfully, I feel quite disheartened. For The Abandoned Realms, and the HoE.
I have this character logs all the way to January. Everything seems fine from what I viewed, obviously over 4 month of logs is sieving through quite a lot, but the vast majority of what I saw was just chit chat, including helping newbies with fighting questions and the like. Very nice work. And there is no incident to the contrary that anyone has brought up. I didn't see these "teenage meltdowns".
Also I followed up on the only credible allegations of any "OOC'ing", and that turned out to be with the leader of Heralds. Nothing was done about it in-game. Maybe it would be appropriate to uninduct or at least slay them both. But they weren't. Either of them. So thats interesting. I'll be looking closely into that.
Congrats Conundo.
Bladefury BANNED 0 , 0 , 0 . Thanks Euv 2 , 0 , 1 . Agreed, Thorgoth. "Let's Move on". Davs decision is final. Bladefury BANNED 0 , 0 , 0 . Thanka Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . Ok, emissaries, if you think you need process changes, please just come up with something that works for you and I'll find time to help with the coding of it. It would be trivial to add a timed delay to clicking the tag, although I do not really see how it will change anything about behavior, its a very easy addition.
[reply to Thorgoth]Conundo, congrats on the HoE votes.
Bladefury, good luck with, and look forward to, your next character.
Before we do anything new, let me also just remind you folks one final thing. While its true the exalted tag is a nod from the emissary and gets the character displayed in the HOE section, it seems we've been overlooking one last, crucial detail. The skull badge still requires the Imm staff to apply. Nobody can roll the vampires and alhoons until they get their skull. This is not by accident, its to leave some reasonable time for inquiry.
You can see if you read the thread I did ask repeatedly for examples of "poor RP" and took the unusual long measure of checking 4 months of log. I also literally told bladefury I was logging his character and told him he's under close observation. I'm feeling pretty confident you guys have nothing on him. He has been playing knowing he is held accountable, which is a very effective tool for keeping people IC that normally let things slip. Also, given what I just told you, I would say its a really good idea to stay IC around bladefurrys characters. If he sees you saying and doing shady shit, all he has to do is let the Imms know and they will have seen you doing it minutes later.
hamsandwich 
5 , 0 , 0 . I wasn't really a part of all of this at all, but I have read the whole shit show, and I didn't feel inclined to comment until reading this. Nadrin is right, bladefury has defended himself a little, but was still levelheaded throughout. Having been on the receiving end of some vicious forum abuse in the past (like over a decade ago) I know how much it can hurt and how easy it is to go right in to shit flinging mode. So good on him for not doing that. Bladefury BANNED 0 , 0 , 0 . Thanks fellas
[reply to Nadrin]I didn't have a ton of interactions with this guy post-restore, but I did the first time through. I distinctly remember having a "holy shit, Bladefury is for real now" moment at some point. I think after delete and before restore, I even named the new Seringale forgemaster Conundo in his honor and had to change it up when we brought him back due to those unique circumstances.
I don't think HoE needs to be reserved for the .1%. The near-perfection of characters like Uvet, Mkatos, and Ygin is something that is a level of special that goes well beyond my HoE standard. I'm not suggesting this is a participation trophy, either. Looking at this character objectively, I see a Warlord with an excellent duel record of Duels: 161, Wins: 122, Losses: 39 (Win Rate: 75%), got an imm restore (uber, uber rare), had a mob named after him (that wasn't a tongue-in-cheek reference), was first? (maybe wrong there) Warmaster of modern warlord under Lorne, who was pretty damn stubborn about naming one.
The character deserves to be recognized.
Lorne 
2 , 0 , 0 . That is correct Olyn, he is the first Warmaster I've named since...well me when I was mortal. I admit, I have been very stubborn about naming a Warmaster.
Bladefury BANNED 1 , 0 , 0 . I would have been salty if I got demoted but totally agree with you after i got the warmaster spot it felt like I had a few people asking for promotions and it actually rather annoyed the shit out of me. So I totally would have understood in the long wrong if I got demoted haha. My realization came when I rolled my 1st dwarf warrior gradible furhammer. After him I knew dwarf warrior were my bread and butter. I learned so much over this characters lifetime. From lorne and other warlords alike. My favorite battles go out to edebayo and ijigoshk they posed the most challenge out of anyone ive fought. Ozaru if you would have ay least played for 6-8 months as edebayo you would have had HoE or I at least would have voted for edebayo to get in.
[reply to Olyn]I am notoriously easy on the requirements in the first three levels, then it becomes very hard to reach Blademaster from Proven and hardcore hard to get to Warmaster. I can think of a few Warlords who were probably frustrated with me in thinking they deserved a promotion.
Actually I almost demoted Conundo when he was egging me to promote him much much earlier in his character's career. I had the same realization holy shit realization for Bladefury in this character as well.
Bladefury BANNED 1 , 1 , 0 . Nycticora always a pleasure thanks for your vote
[reply to Nycticora][reply to Davairus]
Congrats Blade, your hard work has been rewarded! Cheers! I bet one of the vamps running around is yours.
[reply to Merlandox]
yNgFrE 
2 , 1 , 0 . youre not a retard..i was honored to be your nemesis :D
[reply to Bladefury]it seems like you have come a long way and deserve every bit of this. so congrats nundo@!
[reply to Bladefury]