From a young age, Peemo learned very quickly about balance. He learned
that there was light and darkness. He witnessed many of his kind get
brutalized and sacrificed to the dark gods, while others would go out of
their way to save a damsel in distress. It took him some time, but
eventually he found the perfect medium, right down the middle. There was
nothing the young avian wouldn't do to keep the balance in his life. He
grew up knowing that the balance in his life would project onto those around
him. It wasn't long before he became keen on the elements, learning how to
harness and bend them to his will. In that he found both chaos and order,
another perfect example of balance that he would embrace. One particular
evening Peemo would discover something he would hold true to his heart for
the rest of his days, his devotion to Lord Olyn.
Description:
Long, flowing hair, the color of desert sand sweeps back from the
forehead of this avian male. Slightly below a pair of thin, eyebrows,
speckled with a slightly golden hue, his brown eyes beam with a zealous
curiousity. Between them a neatly cascading nose splits his round face
which seems to end abruptly with a wide, square jaw. The light color of his
neatly groomed hair seems to coincide with the ashen complexion of his skin.
His body is well developed and tall, as he remains in an upright, rigid
form. His large wings span out from the center of his back to either side,
giving him much more girth than a normal humanoid. If one happens to see
this avian move they may notice practiced and dexterous motions as if each
muscle is working in unison to achieve higher effectiveness. He almost
seems to possess some mechanical traits at times with sharp, rigid
movements.
First of all, being completely honest, I'm glad this character is deleted. Mainly because I saw the other side, I'd see the guys getting massively discouraged after practicing regularly and bingeing EOM hours to keep rare equipment being mercilessly jacked and full looted by someone who just logged in after months inactive. I could see it making other players feel their efforts were pointless. So on that token, good riddance. But actually lets be REALLY honest. This character right here is the prototype for a Keeper. I've got nothing against beia for playing a character the way it was supposed to be, and obviously they promoted him to leader for success, but they seem like an incredibly toxic cabal on the whole. Like, how does it matter if he deleted it, even. anyone playing this game at any time could power level an invoker to level 50, auto-induct into Keepers and be just as powerful as Teemo here, and they could do it in the time between his logins, probably multiple times at that. Purge-proof, that's the main problem. And then the non-rare gem that lets you forge up level 50 gear. like just fuck off. Who made that gem anyway
Stiehl26
0 , 0 , 0 .
Find out who is using it the most or first then see whose Imm it is
von
1 , 0 , 0 .
The whole idea of Keepers thinking rares are dangerous never made sense to me. I think there is room for them to work towards balance without the rare stuff. Which imm is even in charge of Keepers now?
Scrynor
0 , 0 , 0 .
Don't we know who is using it most? It's gotta be Bonfo, right? That guy is in pure forged perfect dam roll gear all the time. Gets it looted, makes it again. He offers it in exchange for RP stuff too. He's got the forging down. I've seen him with a word on the quality of it I didn't know existed before I saw it on him. And I am 99% confident he's not an Imm alt because, I mean, you've met him right? So I guess people not just Keepers really like those 50 non-rare gems.
BlackWidow
0 , 0 , 0 .
...So I'm not the only one who has called this guy (Peemo) Teemo. He wasn't as bad as the "other" Teemo, though Keepers have some similarly annoying qualities (toxicity and a tendency towards juggernaut slaying come to mind). I find the *real* Teemo annoying to the point of always taking out my High Noon Jhin skin if he's on the enemy team just so I can hear Jhin mutter, "I like the way you die, boy" whenever I kill Teemo.
beia
0 , 0 , 0 .
In my defense. I very very rarely full looted anyone, with the exception of cabal invaders. I also did not play this character as a bloodthirsty power hungry Keeper. That is why I was promoted. I used diplomacy and didn't attack every single person who was decked out. I became the change I wanted to see in the Cabal. I just didn't have enough time to see it through. You can ask Veiver, we were on the same page with how we seen the Keeper cabal. I wore platinum and gambled gear from winter, with a grand total of 3 pieces from the Keeper bazar. So your point about being OP because of l33t keeper gear is moot. I can sense your animosity though, Keepers are in a weird place with the changes to all the other cabals.
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
There's nothing to defend here. I said I think you played Keeper perfectly fine, while I had an outsider perspective and to me looked like trashy PK. You have your own perspective, I'm just giving you mine. To offer a parallel, the Warlords cabal comes under a regular barrage of criticism about its honor, about whoring gear, and about padding duels. That's been the broken-record trifecta of moans. These are established "facts of life" that should be self-evident, whether true or not for any given Warlord. As for response... I could reply that is easy shit to sling because of past Warlords who played sub-par and deliberately damaged the cabal reputation. I could reply these are expectations that are difficult to satisfy. I could reply that the player saying it just has a chip on his shoulder, maybe got kicked out of Warlords or who knows why. The point is though, it doesn't matter what I reply, the point made still resonates. Similarly, the point that Keepers login after many months, in whatever jackoff gambled gear, level 50 non-rare gems, with a cabal powers cherry on top, then dunk players who were doing well is not moot. Its rather well-established as a reason to be groaning about your AR experience
Lol are you talking about the immutable ion? If so you made it lol you forgot?
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
To level the playing field, sure. I'm just talking about the regular level 50 diamond.
Xenyar
0 , 0 , 0 .
The glittering diamond from Underworld? Hasn't that been 50 for a long while now? Phasing stone got changed to magic item, Immutable ion added, glittering diamond been around for a while I think, and the ruby teardrop from Xalthessa.
It use to be that level 50 rare stones weren't in very often. Now they always are because of the availability of non-rare ones.
I suggest going back to just one non-rare lvl 50 gem. That's the one from Xalthessa. Typically takes a group, unless you're an avenger pally or invoker. Maybe monk? Don't play them so I don't know. And they can't be farmed.
von
0 , 0 , 0 .
What about making the nonrare gems level 47 or something. Would that still make them useful for forging but clearly a step down from rare gems?
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
I believe we made the number of hours needed to keep rares per month dependent on their costs, so that implies if something was a cost 10,000 rare it effectively never be lost, barring maybe a rounding error which I can check. I think there's no reason why they and all the other forged gear that exceeds +2 damroll can't be made into rares with cost 10,000. That would open engrave up. It'd be interesting to see what sets people come up with.
Mogu
1 , 0 , 0 .
The best part about the non-rare 50 gem is being able to forge a mithril saves swap set you can throw in your sack.
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
til someone rolls a thief sure.
Scrynor
1 , 0 , 0 .
Is that even a thing anymore after your changes to pry? When's the last time somebody pried a major globe? The no rare forged saves going around the rare limit is well worth the minimal thief risk.
Stiehl26
1 , 0 , 0 .
Scrynor with the mic drop!
Arunore
0 , 0 , 0 .
;)
Davairus
0 , 0 , 0 .
the only change to pry was to require empty hands, which we can roll back any time. if it is bad. i had not heard that feedback.
Scrynor
0 , 0 , 0 .
The no hands change just fundamentally alters the risk reward ratio. You're trying a thing that lags you with no weapons, down two defense skills (parry and counterbalance). So when you fail you immediately get thumped so hard it's a full flee and reset not an exchange of damage. If you catch a bash like that it's tragic. And that's assuming you even get to try to pry. If they are poisoning themselves they might tick and catch you empty handed while you unequip.
It's just so risky now that to me it kind of feels like a do it for giggles option rather than a tactical "if I can take their potion sack I might have a shot" option. Unless you have nothing to lose I guess and the consequence of dying doesn't matter.
I think the real problem Dav is getting at here is that players aren’t encouraged to invest time and energy into a Keeper. They’re purge-proof, so you can stop playing one at any time to go chase another fancy.
You can flip his example on its head too. Think about all of this time and effort you invest in forging yourself up some nice keeper gear. You put in lots of hours that month, only to lose all of it because you died. You could have died to a mob trying to farm more tajis, or you died on the job trying to take down a threat. But either way, all of your time was wasted. Keepers have this “all-or-nothing” style baked into their mechanics that makes them exhausting to play consistently. And then of course, playing them inconsistently leads to this weird toxic relationship with the rest of the characters out there.
I think their whole gear thing should be revamped. Gambling and forging is great, keep that. But get rid of rot death and impose purge rules on them. Finally, I’d reward non-Keepers for sacrificing or collecting Keeper gear in some way. Maybe sticking them in a forge yields a really cool gem. Or maybe they’re just worth a ton of money if you sacrifice them. Stuff like that. My hope is this would promote a less toxic and more consistent Keeper presence. But I might be overlooking something.
Scrynor
2 , 0 , 0 .
It does seem like their gear system is kinda bad for everybody, doesn't? Keepers complain about the all-or-nothing poof investment. Non-keepers complain about the "I get nothing for risking a fight with them".
I think their rare schtick would go a lot better if it wasn't a raw sacrifice but instead was robinhood-like. If they were dealing out reclaimed rares to non-threats it makes far more balance. And if you could take a key off their corpse and raid their lockbox when you beat them then you get something out of it.
As they hoard it would make this everybody vs them dynamic too. I remember when Peemo and Jin were the big bads of the moment and it felt weird because there was so little incentive to take them down. If it was a lockbox system then you take them down and get all the worlds treasures.
lionSpyre
0 , 0 , 0 .
Love this idea that every keeper would hold a key to the vault that holds their hoarded rare items. The keeper would be invested the play more to dole out those rares to non threats and keep their vaults empty. If they aren’t on top of it, they’ll get targeted by others looking to nab their key and clear the vault themselves.
BlackWidow
0 , 0 , 0 .
That is a good point Scrynor. It's generally not worth it to raid the Keeper's vault for one random rare item, whereas it may or may not be worthwhile to eat the wanted flag for raiding the Justice vault depending on what's inside. With Justice, you can at least figure out with locate object if you're going to hit significant pay dirt from raiding the vault; with the Keepers, there's just no telling what will come out of it each time you "kick the vending machine". (possibly it's a poor analogy, especially where drink vending machines are concerned, but I imagine you get the point. You smack something (and probably hurt yourself) and *might* get what you want after that. Or not get what you want, or get junk, etc.)
Scrynor
0 , 0 , 0 .
Not to respond to my own idea, but the robinhood system would also achieve the goal of circulating rares much better. Non-elites who have thought "I'd just like to try titanium tenor one time" would now have a better chance because maybe some elite players are just handing them out. And it would give elites more players to chase and beat up on to reequip because more people would have valuable stuff.
Dogran
0 , 0 , 0 .
The other solution would be to close keepers down, and let another cabal pick up the mantle. IE Warlords need a reason to make war anyway, let them enforce the balance in cabal warfare, and let them hunt the strongest players, it fits their MO best anyway. Then dunk keeper gambling completely and work more on crafting.
Scrynor
1 , 0 , 0 .
I do like the idea of warlords with a Robinhood shtick too. That ties it to something self serving instead of the never-that-fun fantasy commitment to neutrality and balance which is very restrictive. In warlords Robinhood is
I give the weak items because I want stronger people to fight
And
I take your items because I don't want you to be stronger than me
It also helps with one of the big problems of warlords immensely.
Why fight a decked out warlord who is obviously better than you?
You might learn something... and he will give you good stuff after the beating.
Why would a max geared warlord loot anything other than being a jerk?
Because it's part of their shtick now.
Unfortunately, personally I think any merging benefits are overcome by the restrictions already on warlords. I don't think contraction is a great option. I already feel like cabal options are very limited. Limiting it more doesn't feel like a great thing. Without Keepers there really isn't a cabal home for neutral spellcasters or rogues who want to fight. I suppose there's Justice but that is shackled to both towns and the most RP restrictive ethos. I just don't see how you could close keepers or merge it into warlords without providing a different option for those class/ alignment combos.
Arunore
0 , 0 , 0 .
Knights VS Legion
Warlords VS Mystics
Keepers VS Justice
Made most sense to me
Scrynor
0 , 0 , 0 .
Yeah, I kinda miss the fighting Mystics of old. I can see how if Mystics was full of RP players back in the day who didn't like the cabal fighting obligations then them going into the Consortium made sense. I can't shake the feeling that the RP Mystics should have just become Consortium Scholars and the battle Mystics should have remained for the PK casters.
Mr. Forgotten
1 , 0 , 0 .
GY Hijacked. If you want to continue this conversation, please post in Ideas and Suggestions or another relevant forum space.
Scrynor
1 , 0 , 0 .
Very true. Apologies Peemo! I thought you were a great Keeper!
[reply to beia]
beia 
0 , 0 , 0 . I love your salty tears. Why are you not perm banned yet? (removed) 0 , 0 , 0 . THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED. (removed) 0 , 0 , 0 . THIS COMMENT HAS BEEN REMOVED.
[reply to Ozaru][reply to Grayden]
[reply to Ceridwel]
[reply to Ashlyn]
Stiehl26 
0 , 0 , 0 . Find out who is using it the most or first then see whose Imm it is von 
1 , 0 , 0 . The whole idea of Keepers thinking rares are dangerous never made sense to me. I think there is room for them to work towards balance without the rare stuff. Which imm is even in charge of Keepers now? Scrynor 
0 , 0 , 0 . Don't we know who is using it most? It's gotta be Bonfo, right? That guy is in pure forged perfect dam roll gear all the time. Gets it looted, makes it again. He offers it in exchange for RP stuff too. He's got the forging down. I've seen him with a word on the quality of it I didn't know existed before I saw it on him. And I am 99% confident he's not an Imm alt because, I mean, you've met him right? So I guess people not just Keepers really like those 50 non-rare gems. BlackWidow 
0 , 0 , 0 . ...So I'm not the only one who has called this guy (Peemo) Teemo. He wasn't as bad as the "other" Teemo, though Keepers have some similarly annoying qualities (toxicity and a tendency towards juggernaut slaying come to mind). I find the *real* Teemo annoying to the point of always taking out my High Noon Jhin skin if he's on the enemy team just so I can hear Jhin mutter, "I like the way you die, boy" whenever I kill Teemo. beia 
0 , 0 , 0 . In my defense. I very very rarely full looted anyone, with the exception of cabal invaders. I also did not play this character as a bloodthirsty power hungry Keeper. That is why I was promoted. I used diplomacy and didn't attack every single person who was decked out. I became the change I wanted to see in the Cabal. I just didn't have enough time to see it through. You can ask Veiver, we were on the same page with how we seen the Keeper cabal. I wore platinum and gambled gear from winter, with a grand total of 3 pieces from the Keeper bazar. So your point about being OP because of l33t keeper gear is moot. I can sense your animosity though, Keepers are in a weird place with the changes to all the other cabals. Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . There's nothing to defend here. I said I think you played Keeper perfectly fine, while I had an outsider perspective and to me looked like trashy PK. You have your own perspective, I'm just giving you mine. To offer a parallel, the Warlords cabal comes under a regular barrage of criticism about its honor, about whoring gear, and about padding duels. That's been the broken-record trifecta of moans. These are established "facts of life" that should be self-evident, whether true or not for any given Warlord. As for response... I could reply that is easy shit to sling because of past Warlords who played sub-par and deliberately damaged the cabal reputation. I could reply these are expectations that are difficult to satisfy. I could reply that the player saying it just has a chip on his shoulder, maybe got kicked out of Warlords or who knows why. The point is though, it doesn't matter what I reply, the point made still resonates. Similarly, the point that Keepers login after many months, in whatever jackoff gambled gear, level 50 non-rare gems, with a cabal powers cherry on top, then dunk players who were doing well is not moot. Its rather well-established as a reason to be groaning about your AR experience
[reply to Davairus]Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . To level the playing field, sure. I'm just talking about the regular level 50 diamond. Xenyar 
0 , 0 , 0 . The glittering diamond from Underworld? Hasn't that been 50 for a long while now? Phasing stone got changed to magic item, Immutable ion added, glittering diamond been around for a while I think, and the ruby teardrop from Xalthessa. von 
0 , 0 , 0 . What about making the nonrare gems level 47 or something. Would that still make them useful for forging but clearly a step down from rare gems? Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . I believe we made the number of hours needed to keep rares per month dependent on their costs, so that implies if something was a cost 10,000 rare it effectively never be lost, barring maybe a rounding error which I can check. I think there's no reason why they and all the other forged gear that exceeds +2 damroll can't be made into rares with cost 10,000. That would open engrave up. It'd be interesting to see what sets people come up with. Mogu 
1 , 0 , 0 . The best part about the non-rare 50 gem is being able to forge a mithril saves swap set you can throw in your sack. Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . til someone rolls a thief sure. Scrynor 
1 , 0 , 0 . Is that even a thing anymore after your changes to pry? When's the last time somebody pried a major globe? The no rare forged saves going around the rare limit is well worth the minimal thief risk. Stiehl26 
1 , 0 , 0 . Scrynor with the mic drop! Arunore 
0 , 0 , 0 . ;) Davairus 0 , 0 , 0 . the only change to pry was to require empty hands, which we can roll back any time. if it is bad. i had not heard that feedback. Scrynor 
0 , 0 , 0 . The no hands change just fundamentally alters the risk reward ratio. You're trying a thing that lags you with no weapons, down two defense skills (parry and counterbalance). So when you fail you immediately get thumped so hard it's a full flee and reset not an exchange of damage. If you catch a bash like that it's tragic. And that's assuming you even get to try to pry. If they are poisoning themselves they might tick and catch you empty handed while you unequip.
[reply to Ozaru]It use to be that level 50 rare stones weren't in very often. Now they always are because of the availability of non-rare ones.
I suggest going back to just one non-rare lvl 50 gem. That's the one from Xalthessa. Typically takes a group, unless you're an avenger pally or invoker. Maybe monk? Don't play them so I don't know. And they can't be farmed.
It's just so risky now that to me it kind of feels like a do it for giggles option rather than a tactical "if I can take their potion sack I might have a shot" option. Unless you have nothing to lose I guess and the consequence of dying doesn't matter.
You can flip his example on its head too. Think about all of this time and effort you invest in forging yourself up some nice keeper gear. You put in lots of hours that month, only to lose all of it because you died. You could have died to a mob trying to farm more tajis, or you died on the job trying to take down a threat. But either way, all of your time was wasted. Keepers have this “all-or-nothing” style baked into their mechanics that makes them exhausting to play consistently. And then of course, playing them inconsistently leads to this weird toxic relationship with the rest of the characters out there.
I think their whole gear thing should be revamped. Gambling and forging is great, keep that. But get rid of rot death and impose purge rules on them. Finally, I’d reward non-Keepers for sacrificing or collecting Keeper gear in some way. Maybe sticking them in a forge yields a really cool gem. Or maybe they’re just worth a ton of money if you sacrifice them. Stuff like that. My hope is this would promote a less toxic and more consistent Keeper presence. But I might be overlooking something.
Scrynor 
2 , 0 , 0 . It does seem like their gear system is kinda bad for everybody, doesn't? Keepers complain about the all-or-nothing poof investment. Non-keepers complain about the "I get nothing for risking a fight with them".
lionSpyre 
0 , 0 , 0 . Love this idea that every keeper would hold a key to the vault that holds their hoarded rare items. The keeper would be invested the play more to dole out those rares to non threats and keep their vaults empty. If they aren’t on top of it, they’ll get targeted by others looking to nab their key and clear the vault themselves. BlackWidow 
0 , 0 , 0 . That is a good point Scrynor. It's generally not worth it to raid the Keeper's vault for one random rare item, whereas it may or may not be worthwhile to eat the wanted flag for raiding the Justice vault depending on what's inside. With Justice, you can at least figure out with locate object if you're going to hit significant pay dirt from raiding the vault; with the Keepers, there's just no telling what will come out of it each time you "kick the vending machine". (possibly it's a poor analogy, especially where drink vending machines are concerned, but I imagine you get the point. You smack something (and probably hurt yourself) and *might* get what you want after that. Or not get what you want, or get junk, etc.) Scrynor 
0 , 0 , 0 . Not to respond to my own idea, but the robinhood system would also achieve the goal of circulating rares much better. Non-elites who have thought "I'd just like to try titanium tenor one time" would now have a better chance because maybe some elite players are just handing them out. And it would give elites more players to chase and beat up on to reequip because more people would have valuable stuff. Dogran 
0 , 0 , 0 . The other solution would be to close keepers down, and let another cabal pick up the mantle. IE Warlords need a reason to make war anyway, let them enforce the balance in cabal warfare, and let them hunt the strongest players, it fits their MO best anyway. Then dunk keeper gambling completely and work more on crafting. Scrynor 
1 , 0 , 0 . I do like the idea of warlords with a Robinhood shtick too. That ties it to something self serving instead of the never-that-fun fantasy commitment to neutrality and balance which is very restrictive. In warlords Robinhood is
Arunore 
0 , 0 , 0 . Knights VS Legion
Scrynor 
0 , 0 , 0 . Yeah, I kinda miss the fighting Mystics of old. I can see how if Mystics was full of RP players back in the day who didn't like the cabal fighting obligations then them going into the Consortium made sense. I can't shake the feeling that the RP Mystics should have just become Consortium Scholars and the battle Mystics should have remained for the PK casters. Mr. Forgotten 
1 , 0 , 0 . GY Hijacked. If you want to continue this conversation, please post in Ideas and Suggestions or another relevant forum space. Scrynor 
1 , 0 , 0 . Very true. Apologies Peemo! I thought you were a great Keeper!
[reply to lionSpyre]I think their rare schtick would go a lot better if it wasn't a raw sacrifice but instead was robinhood-like. If they were dealing out reclaimed rares to non-threats it makes far more balance. And if you could take a key off their corpse and raid their lockbox when you beat them then you get something out of it.
As they hoard it would make this everybody vs them dynamic too. I remember when Peemo and Jin were the big bads of the moment and it felt weird because there was so little incentive to take them down. If it was a lockbox system then you take them down and get all the worlds treasures.
I give the weak items because I want stronger people to fight
And
I take your items because I don't want you to be stronger than me
It also helps with one of the big problems of warlords immensely.
Why fight a decked out warlord who is obviously better than you?
You might learn something... and he will give you good stuff after the beating.
Why would a max geared warlord loot anything other than being a jerk?
Because it's part of their shtick now.
Unfortunately, personally I think any merging benefits are overcome by the restrictions already on warlords. I don't think contraction is a great option. I already feel like cabal options are very limited. Limiting it more doesn't feel like a great thing. Without Keepers there really isn't a cabal home for neutral spellcasters or rogues who want to fight. I suppose there's Justice but that is shackled to both towns and the most RP restrictive ethos. I just don't see how you could close keepers or merge it into warlords without providing a different option for those class/ alignment combos.
Warlords VS Mystics
Keepers VS Justice
Made most sense to me