Cabal Warfare - Invasion

[Ergorion]

Moving this discussion here.

My premise: it is extremely unlikely and nearly impossible for a cabal's item to be taken in a 1v1 situation.

Solution: tier the difficulty of the guards to match the number of players

My suggestions for cabal invasion:
(1) if you are inside the cabal, the door guardians should be unable to repop
(2) the altar guardian should scale with regards to how many people are invading as calculated by the number of people in pk range in the cabal grounds and area immediately outside; Perhaps this calculation should include all members of a single cabal currently online (aka 5 Knights, but four of them chilling in Valour while one invades should still trip the 3+v1 guard)

I would suggest doing one of the following:
(a) when there is only one invader, the altar guard should perform second attack at its current hitroll
(b) when there is only one invader, the altar guard should have far less hitroll so that the 4 attacks per round might be defended against
(c) the altar guard should not hold aggro if there is a single invader.

[beia]

Sounds like a good way to balance out the Cabal Relic System.

[Dogran]

I like this idea. It should be easier to take an item if there is no defense.

[Ozaru]

The item should be harder to obtain if no one is around to obtain it. During the height of legion power and the futility of knights the keeper item and knight item was taken daily, while the justice item was rarely touched. The problem with cabal warfare is one cabal usually legions has the most skilled players and no cabal is mandated to fight one on one. If you really want balance, make a rule that cabal fights should only be 1 on 1 regardless of the situation. If legions takes the item of a cabal I will use keepers as an example the lowest member on the pole should be forced to deal with the invader NOT THE ENTIRE CABAL. If the legion dies to the keeper then the next guy in line on legion should go deal with the situation. How many players have just quit a character because of uneven odds to a particular cabal or they just don't join one because of these situations.

[Dogran]

The situation with keepers playing the Balancers works really well. The key is whether or not they are active. It is not a seriously outmatched fight to fight a keeper anymore, you can win and kill the keeper if you have the skill. There are always going to be situations where ganking is necessary. Take Mkatos for example. It took FOUR of us to bring him down, and that was with us having his cabal item! It was retarded. Its easy for one person to retrieve a cabal item that has been captured. The Door guard regenerates real slow, and you can hit and run if you have to. Its not an instant death sentance most of the time. I have successfully retrieved against 2-3 members of opposing cabals plenty of times without dying. With that said I have also died against one trying to retrieve or capture. Situations very a lot. I stick by agreeing with Ergorians idea.

[Ergorion]

[Dogran]

[Ozaru]

It bothers me that you flame an idea as retarded, if you don't like it then fine.

[Nycticora]

Some ideas are dangerous and need to be shot down.

[Fireballe2]

[kento]

Given the change in the difficulty of the cabal guardians, I think that the item reverting back to the owning cabal's possession when no one is around should be changed back to permanent possession until reclaimed. As of now, there would never be a viable situation where it would make sense to focus on the item, considering if they log that is 2 hours wasted.

[Kato]

When was the last time someone even captured a cabal item? Weeks ago, at least. And with buff guardians, just killing the front guardian is an undertaking now. If we want cabal warfare to actually include the cabal areas (it's fine if we don't), something probably needs to change

[Olyn]

Kento - Is this the case? I remember we made some adjustments to make sure cabal item capture even continues through reboots.

[Mummy]

This is so something needing changed! I killed the door guardian and then the middle guardian and while I'm killing the altar guardian, the other two come back and my attacks on the altar guardian all turn to 'you can't hurt him while the other guardians are alive'.

They respawned three times while I was in there, destroying my chance of capturing because it prolonged how long it would take by at least three times.

[Faelon]

I get the buffing on one hand - Illusionists and full Necro's can chew through these guys before the changes - no problems.

On the other hand, a warrior or any other non-pet bearing class gets smeared by these things.

[Dogran]

I dont know, The mobs being buffed is one thing. It is a deathmarch to take the item or retrieve the item now period. The movement delay is AWFUL... It makes me thing that imms do NOT want us to capture when other players are on. It basically means, if there is no one on and you are bored, capture. If someone is on dont waste your time.

[Ergorion]

"if there is no one on and you are bored, capture"

And that definitely means no one because with super slow movement, you're not even going to get that item captured if some level 20 invoker decides to make your life hell.

Also, illus and necros did not have as easy as a time as you might think. Their armies did terrible damage and the altar guardian hits like a truck. Clerics were the ones who had the most efficient item capturing--also probably rangers.

[Hrimoyan]

It does kind of suck to go through all that extended toil to capture an item and after all of that getting a gank flag on your head to boot (especially solo). I think item capturing has lessened a lot because the ends aren't worth the means unless you have a very active cabal pbase war going on.

That's fine to me. These items aren't meant to be captured on a whim. They are the source of a cabal's power and I don't believe there are any directives stating you must capture the items of other cabals.

I personally don't think item capture should be happening unless it's crucial to prolonged victory (ex. active 5v5 and knocking out one side's power could be a huge advantage, high risk high reward). These little loner log-capture-[hope to shit on someone for logging on]-[else logoff] deals are stupid to me.

It would probably be decent to not even make item capture possible until at least one person representing that cabal is actually online. Leave the retrieval and captured item mechanic means as is, but that's probably the real change I'd make. That would probably require a redo of the capture process though.

[Nycticora]

movement delay to retrieve the item? Just sacrifice it, you fool

[Dogran]

I forgot about that. Thats a good idea.