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Baer
 
Joined: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 618
Location: Michigan
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 Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Yes, all those areas/modules/gear/etc etc. can be used to roleplay, but yes, the truth of the matter is, that first and foremost this is a PK mud. Like it as not. Sure, I RP, that's about all I do, but I don't whine about how not everyone else does. It's enforced, true, but it's also true that the imms don't want to be nazi's to new ip addresses and drive them away. Like Sebryn has said, they'll get the picture soon enough, with or without immortal/mortal prompting.
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| A Playerkilling, Roleplaying MUD |
Says it right there on the log-in screen. Barest literalism I can muster, but there it is. |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 9:07 am Post subject: |
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Thing is there are only two heralds to oversee 150+ people anyway, so the point is moot. I agree with the sentiment but I dont think this would be a working solution. Something broader, like nobles too
Also I consider RP and PK equal, they complement each other. |
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theobserver
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:33 am Post subject: |
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Personally I think role playing is best encourged by other players, not administrators. When the new guy sees that it is fun, he will want to join in.
But one thing that does annoy the hell out of me, is when an obvious new player creates with a name like Icedemon and players start spamming newbie chat giving the guy stick over the name. 90% of the time the guy just drops link and never comes back. Just leave the name change to the Imms and be friendly instead. |
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Andur
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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To combat your argument, Baer, as posted on the main page of the website, smack dab at the top for everyone to see:
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| Specialising in intense, innovative player versus player combat in a rich role playing environment. |
So, as you see, it is both, as I said before. Or, at least, that's what the founders intended. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. |
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Sebryn
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 1185
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Andur wrote: |
| So it's not about 'we can't do this because people would abuse it', more of a matter of 'if we do this, we will have to enforce its use', which are two quite different considerations. |
I wasn't saying that it couldn't be done; rather, as the idea was stated I didn't see the current Imm staff having the time to hawk over all of the Heralds' interactions 24/7 to search for breaches of this skill's use. Yes, that would mean that it would have to be *gasp* "enforced," but I don't even think that if it was, you'd find the skill effective enough (in XP output, that is) to outweigh a ranking group's efficiency in the same amount of time. Granted that's not your point, the point being to stir up some more avenues for RP reward so as to foster a more roleplay-oriented environment, but it's an undeniable fact.
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| In fact, I do have a module that will reward you points the longer you communicate with it in proper english. It is able to parse sentences to ensure they make sense (between two targets), and accumulate points based on how long two targets communicate. |
I'm assuming that the only way to prevent abuse of this would be to actively sit and monitor the communication between two individuals - a remarkably tedious job, to say the least. And what happens when two OOC buddies start spamming tells to each other, or talking about complete nonsense, just to load up their "communication count"?
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| If you think it's a PK mud first and foremost then you are as guilty as anyone else for not contributing to the world. Do I see any RP modules added in lately? Oh, hell, I dunno, how about every area ever written for the Mud, every mob program, of which there are countless thousands, and how about those silly little quests that were put in that required extreme effort on the part of the coders to provide? |
The areas and mobprogs are written the way that they are so that you don't get bored with ranking and chasing people, etc.... The game could easily be dumbed down to having 15-20k rooms that looked like this:
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Another Room
Here it is.
[Exits: north east south west up down]
A training mob is here. |
They ARE differentiated from one another to add to the 'fun factor.'
The quests, on the other hand, are primarily written so that newer players can learn the areas and how to gain objects. Your first quest is designed to get you used to the commands, the next few are designed to get you used to finding your guildhall and learning where to find ranking areas/shops/etc. (psst - that's all prep work for PK, with a flashy mobprog thrown on top so that it's not so mechanical). I'm not in ANY way downplaying the work that Dav & Co. did on the quests, I think they're great - but I doubt that they were designed with RP in mind.
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| The problem with the lack of RP stems not from the players, it stems from lack of interest by the immortal staff. RP DOES often have to be facilitated by Immortal staff, though once it starts, it will generally continue and flourish. |
Lack of interest? Tell that to Torkalen, whose entire cabal/group is RP-driven. Tell it to Louis and Ronus, whose characters' RPs have been some of the most remembered and fascinating as of late (Louis - Deiminos, Sethronu, Zasa, etc.; Ronus - Ronus, Drengar, etc.). Hell, I STILL RP when I can with Vhrael, and I've had several characteristics of his personality develop after he got immed.
If you're trying to roleplay with someone (Imms included) and you get the cold shoulder, then let me know. Personally I haven't seen that at ALL in the game thus far, and if it's happening then we need to know about it. Every time I've tried to start a conversation with someone in-game (as a mort or otherwise) I've had fairly pleasant results.
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| Players will focus only on the killing if that is all the MUD has to offer, but, speaking from experience, it has a lot more than just PK to offer...I can PK on Everquest. I don't come here for that. |
Yes, AR has a lot more to offer - and that's something everybody can agree on. It's not just a room full of bloodthirsty savages, but there are a lot of people that only RP because it's enforced. That's not the ideal situation, but it's a truth as well.
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| I believe RP is something that can be coaxed out of the players over a period of time. |
You're right, and there are already a lot of in-game tools to help foster that. However, I don't think it's the Imm staff that needs to start shouldering the workload for AR's RP - it needs to begin with the players (and yes, some Imms still play... shock). Player-to-player interaction is the most sure-fire way to instill RP value to newer players. Unfortunately, here's the extent of most new/low-rank characters' RP:
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<30hp 10m 10mv>
Bob tells you 'Group?'
<30hp 10m 10mv> tell bob Certainly, lad. Where shall we travel?
You tell Bob 'Certainly, lad. Where shall we travel?'
<30hp 10m 10mv>
Bob tells you 'We hunt goblins.'
{insert block of time with screen spammed by combat}
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Too many people have the belief that RP has to 'wait' until you've ranked to 15, 35, or in some cases rank 50. It SHOULD start at character creation, but unfortunately there are a lot of people stuck on the PK side (another shock) of AR that just rush through character creation and don't put down blueprints for the psyche of their newest persona. That's where it needs to start - with character-to-character interaction. |
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Xythiessi
Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 18
Location: Undecided
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| couldnt there be a echo trigger for some of the most used OOC words , Thx brt any smileys. that force the sayer to say " Im sorry I used a word that doesnt exist I will not do it again I will now read the RP rules" something like that? |
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Zireph
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Thu Jun 30, 2005 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| I think there is a thing that auto reports certain words to imms. Not 100% on that, but if I were an imm, I would do that. |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, everything in the game is for PK. For example, says and emotes whip some hardcore fucking ass. I saw a guy tell another guy that he stinked and it lagged him for five rounds right there. Then this bard walked in and sang Ode to Stryth and everyone just DIED. |
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Burzuk
Implementor
Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 529
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:55 am Post subject: |
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| I need to gimp that song. |
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Zireph
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| God yes you do. |
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Andur
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| Bards are overpowered. |
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Zireph
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:21 am Post subject: |
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| Dude...First gnomes, now this? Comon man. You were arguing so well earlier! You got an older bro or something? |
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Andur
Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 4:48 am Post subject: |
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Well, when Sebryn responded to my argument with a counter argument that didn't really refute any of my previous points, and provided no valid way for me to apply a rebuttal, since there was nothing left to argue...
I...I just ran out of ideas. |
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marsd
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 832
Location: Magewares
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:47 am Post subject: |
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| Davairus wrote: |
| Yeah, everything in the game is for PK. For example, says and emotes whip some hardcore fucking ass. I saw a guy tell another guy that he stinked and it lagged him for five rounds right there. Then this bard walked in and sang Ode to Stryth and everyone just DIED. |
rofl, hilarious. |
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E-ant
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 434
Location: Estonia
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:57 am Post subject: |
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Well, most of the posts were too long so I didn't read them and now I have no idea what you guys said. BUT... I don't think rp in ar is dead. Just because everyone doesn't say 'art' and 'thou' all the time doesn't mean they don't rp. I've been to a bunc of no rp - pk only muds and I don't see how anyone can play them for more than about 12 minutes and 37 seconds. What if you saw a 50 fire zerker walking in saying 'ohh im playing from work haha its so funny ill now make my char bodyslam your gnome'. The fact that people actually play as their chars not the guys commanding their chars what to do... Rp is out there, Scully.
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| What if you saw a 50 fire zerker walking in saying 'ohh im playing from work haha its so funny ill now make my char bodyslam your gnome'. |
Hrash doesn't count. |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 10:12 am Post subject: |
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A character's knowledge of the game is restricted to the contents of the helpfiles, and the lay of the
lands including equipment spawn and quest locations. You do NOT know
everything your other characters or your friends characters might know,
such as, for example, their cabal status. You must discover these things
through your own play to be able to take advantage of knowing them. |
This is in rule 2. I caught it being broken twice last week and once so far this week. Just so you know we do actually try to enforce the roleplaying a little more than stopping people saying 'cuz, thx, etc'. Its a tough job and it'd be lot simpler if people help by praying stuff.
I also did an alignment change today, poor guy got slayed a ton.
rule 2 is the "rp rule" |
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Rezakhan
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2005 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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Observer makes a good point that RP is often best encouraged/begun by other mortal characters, not the imms. If you think about it, the imms have a lot of stuff to do--even the gimps are charged with helping out completely new players and making sure there aren't those egregious ooc exchanges like 'thx' or 'afk'.
If you want to inspire roleplaying in others, have your character do something to involve others. For example, with my Herald I would randomly start up quizzes like the one Tork ran recently--instead of waiting for an imm to make prizes and organize it though, I would just give gold out of my own account when it seemed there were a lot of people in town not doing much. Then, if there was a question it seemed a lot of people didn't know, I would start up a discussion about that certain aspect of AR's history.
The big mistake I think people make is believing that they need to do something drastic for it to be good rp. Not everyone is going to be able to be a Zephyrus or a Lucan, or even a Deiminos. Instead, a more subtle roleplay from a lot of people at once can often be more effective than an intense roleplay from one person, with everyone else watching. Flesh out your own character's background and personality, then use that to feed off of other people. There will always be some dinks who won't respond, or will act like idiots--just ignore them, and try again with someone else. |
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