The "new" Shadar Logoth items

[Davairus]

Ok I have been looking into creating a meaningful alternative to mithril without much success for a while, mostly cuz mithril kicks so much ass. Today I think I finally figured out what I wanted to do, and here, for your viewing pleasure, is the explanation.

Example item

You say 'Object 'armor trolloc' is type armor, material iron.'
You say 'Extra flags: evil anti_good anti_neutral.'
You say 'Weight is 20, value is 5000, level is 40.'
You say 'Armor class is 8 pierce, 7 bash, 9 slash, and 2 vs. magic.'
You say 'Affects dexterity by -2.'
You say 'Affects damroll by 2.'
You say 'Affects hitroll by 1.'

Right, so without getting too deep into things, I'm sure someone out there is throwing fits already from seeing +3 to hit/dam on a single item slot, here's some examples from the mud to show that it is in fact, more than just ok.

Example to illustrate balanced.

case 1:
mithril boots
living wood torso
total = 1 hit, 2 dam, -2 mal

case 2:
wind boots
tainted trolloc armor
total = 1 hit, 2 dam.. actually its a little behind mithril still..

Example to justify the EVIL ONLY.

example 1
mithril boots
minotaur combat gloves
living wood torso
total = 2 hit, 2 dam

example 2
mithril boots
mithril gauntlets
tainted trolloc armor
total = 3 hit, 2 dam

So yeah.. the item is balanced, but if you could use it with mithril it would be overpowered. Since mithril is anti evil, and this trolloc equipment is anti good, there's no way for that to happen.

The question is does it make red dragon redundant. And the answer is no. Because while its a really sweet option when you can get a 2 dex item to complement it, items like that are just very few in the game. It does level the field with mithril though, if you can obtain them. One thing you can do is get some +dex items, and instead of filling up with the +2 dam -1 dex reds, you can get a couple +1 hit +2 dam trolloc pieces, which will offset your dex items quicker in return for some minor hitroll bonus, and then use the rest of the slots for whatever you like (since you wont be able to find more dex items, it'll probably be mahn-tor saves or things like that). If you wanted pure power, it is still best to go full reds, because 2 dam for 1 dex is obviously better than 2 dam for 2 dex, with a hitroll point. (To fully balance the trolloc armor of course, it needs another 1/2 point relation thing, similar to the mithril -2 mal, but I'm leaving it as is for a bit first, incase I decide to pull it)

There is no need for an opposite-bias set for goods, because goods get their own form of black iron, but there is no 'evil mithril'. If this equipment gets withdrawn/redone it will be because we did evil mithril equivalent, but personally I hope it stands up under the scrutiny we'll see over next week or two, for the sake of variety.

* it makes it easier for evils to get more out of mid-level rares (those that do things like +stat, or simply dont have the -dex of a red dragon item)
* it makes high level the best place for evils so that they can actually kill trollocs in reasonable time period
* it makes the less-valuable 2 dex items more valuable (to evils), so extra utility for eq that isnt used a whole lot.

[divsky]

I'm glad you changed it to evil-only. I was about to something. While I was on duty yesterday, standing 6 hour watches on a completely empty barge I realized a neat little math trick to compare the relative differences between hit/damroll eq.

For every +str or +dex the equipment has, add .5, or subtract .5 if it subtracts dex or str. For every hit or dam bonus, add 1 point. For example, living wood or mithril is both 1.5 points (2.0 - .5 or 1.0 + .5). Bronze dragon is 1.0 point. (.5 + .5). Those points are how much hit/damroll you will get if you balance out the dex and str on that equipment to a 0 dex/str bonus or penalty (no change in dex or str). For example.. bronze + red dragon + living wood = 1.0 + 1.5 + 1.5 = 4.0. And you gain 2 hit, 2 dam from that combo. Mithril + red dragon = 1.5 + 1.5 = 3.0. And again, from that combo you gain 2 dam 1 hit, for a total of 3. So this number effectivly shows how much hit/dam eq you'll get from a single peice of equipment by converting dex and str to hit or dam. Granted, you can't actually gain 1.5 hitroll on one peice of eq, but a peice of red dragon still evens out to that. You can try this little trick on any peice of equipment you can think of, real or imaginary, and it still works out, 1 dex/str always equals 1/2 a hit/damroll.

So most hit/damroll eq is 1.5. Trolloc though is 2.0 (1 + 1 + 1 - .5 - .5), making it slightly more powerful. However, like you said, it is balanced for one reason only, the only non-rare hit/dam eq you can balance it out with is +2 dex eq, (wind boots, etc.), which offer only a 1.0 bonus.

[divsky]

by the way, when you use this trick you can go through and see just how overpowered a few peices of rare equipment are. For example:

shimmering leg plates of the Deep Sea Dragon
Object 'shimmering leg plates dragon silver-grey' is type armor, material dragon.
Extra flags: glow.
Weight is 12, value is 2, level is 50.
Armor class is 0 pierce, 24 bash, 20 slash, and 18 vs. magic.
Affects damroll by 3.
Affects hitroll by 2.
Rare item.

That adds up to a 5.0 bonus. That's over three times more powerful than your standard non-rare hit/damroll eq. Other rare eq that gives 4.0 or 4.5 bonuses aren't too uncommon. You can see how powerful the change of just .5 across an entire set of eq can be when you consider the upgrade from the 1.0 equipment of elven chainmail or enchanted leather bracers to the 1.5 mithril/red dragon/etc eq, and how lowbies decked in red dragon can pwn lowbies in the former. So to think the difference between the uber-rare eq and red dragon can range from 2.5 to 3.5 (based on 5.0 - 1.5)? All I got to say about that is.. damn.

[Davairus]

Theres a point system behind the gambling equipment actually.. but yeah this is good for a rough stab at how balanced an item is.

If you want to make a list of vastly overpowered rares I will be happy to fix them into new +3 hitroll stuff (which is needed, rares are very dam heavy)

edit: oops, looked around, burzuks been getting onto it. Sea dragon leggings are fine, your id is out dated.

[Hrash]

Mithril = request low 20s.

Tainted Trolloc = level 40 item.

I think it contrasts rather nicely.

[E-ant]

You can't request mithril.

[Esivole]

The rare mithril from gordon you can, though I am unsure of the level required.