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| Keep it around, or not? |
| Keep it around. |
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50% |
[ 10 ] |
| Trash it. |
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40% |
[ 8 ] |
| Just change it a little (explain why). |
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10% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 20 |
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marsd
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 832
Location: Magewares
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 Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| A char, by actually caring to rank all the way to 50.... doesn't seem trash at all to me. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| so if they rank to 50 while consistently pking people 3-5 ranks under them for the fun of it, that isnt a trash char? |
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Xazappith
Immortal
Joined: 03 Aug 2005
Posts: 169
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| Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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Mandor, if you have ranks on someone, there's a chance that your kill won't count. I don't think its huge pentaly on this, I think I read somewhere that it was only -1, which means that if you're 7-10 and you kill someone with five ranks on them, you'll still be 7-10. Although that's just me quoting things half rememberd.
| Quote: |
| I think it's affective, and I like it. If you don't want to be penalized, stop worrying so much about PK before you pinnacle. The way I see it, this game isn't designed for a lot of pre-50 pvp. So there really shouldn't be *any* rewards (including graveyard rankings) for overzealous pre-50 pk. |
I know that I can't say much in the way of PK, I don't accrue pentalties because I'm not good enough to win much yet. But as for getting to 50, it can be very hard sometimes. Granted that I die more than others, but look at my knight. She condied at level 48 because of lack of leveling, and leveling was a priority over anathemas and other evils.
My only suggestion that I can make, is to increase the allowable-without-penatlies PKs at rank 40, because some people are just out of sync with the proper IMMs or players, and while they might be active, it's while those other players are sleeping. Not a problem I've had personally, but still possible. |
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marsd
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 832
Location: Magewares
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: |
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I don't think this system was built just to prevent people from PKing anyone (even those you have levels on) but more of, built just to discourage people staying at a particular rank AND killing people with ranks on you.
You can't group all PKs with ranks under as trash PKing, sometimes the charas have hit 40 for the cabal induction limit, and they killed a few people under them.... that's not trash, definitely.
I dunno why some people thinks trash = killing people 3 ranks down. More like, it's the same reason why you throw something away as rubbish/trash: Because you don't want it and don't care about what happens to it anymore.
The same as trash chars, these charas have no value in them anymore deemed by the players and hence they get to do anything they feel like doing (hence trash pking). |
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Viggs
Joined: 10 Mar 2004
Posts: 383
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Burzuk wrote: |
| Jamus wrote: |
| but I look at posts like Hargan's where their record should have been a lot better. |
Should have been? On what basis? Could have been if they would've done more leveling, sure. By now though, nobody should be surprised that sitting around racking up kills instead of leveling (Warlord challenges or not) winds up hurting your long-term PK record. This isn't exactly a surprise.
| Jamus wrote: |
| It seems to do more bad than good. |
What "bad" is the anti-padding measures causing? We originally implemented the automated PK record posting as a reward people who play the game as it should be played, as the proverbial carrot rather than the stick. Fine-tuning the process so that players who do things we disapprove of (niching, multikilling, etc) doesn't result in a punishment -- it simply doesn't give them the "carrot" or reward of having a shiny record posted. No reward is NOT the same as a punishment. And it's rather easy to preserve a good record if you make a priority out of getting up to 50. Want to bet on what Rigwarl, Vrakka, Taere, etc's records will look like when they delete? Right. And why is that? Because most of their kills didn't come from sitting around at 36 or 38.
| Jamus wrote: |
| I know my record is going to get screwed, because of a few times where I've killed the same person over and over (in honorable duels, one right after another), when they should count towards clean PKs. |
Nope, multikill penalties don't apply to arena kills, but other penalties (niching, etc) still apply. Unless you think dueling people at 36 is as meaningful as dueling people at 50?
| Slade wrote: |
| I think they should get rid of mobdeaths on it btw (and I never die to mobs, just saying), unless the person has PK adrenaline to prevent suiciding so the other guy doesn't get the kill. |
Except that dying to mobs is often due to activities that offer tangible rewards to help you PK, whether it's accidents from pushing yourself too hard while leveling (levels are very significant in PKs), dying while exploring (area knolwedge is obviously helpful), dying while getting eq, dying while raising zombies, etc. There's far more than just the teleport-flee issue at stake here.
| deadzero wrote: |
| So, what do you do when you see eight people in <PK> and no one to group with? you go killing, depending on what your char is like of course. |
8 opposite-align people in PK, and nobody at all in your group range? Yeah, that's a realistic scenario. And if you've antagonized everyone so much that you're having trouble leveling, whose fault is that? Lots of 50's make it up there without OOC groups or cabals.
And contrary to what you might think, the overwhelming majority of those who reach 50 also do so without penalizing their records. As I've said before, you can rack up 100+ kills before level 49 (where anti-niching penalties end) without a single penalty, so long as you actually mix in a level into your PKing regularly (and don't do other penalty-incurring things, such as multikilling). On the other hand, you have a handful of players sitting at the same level for a dozen kills, and then turn around and wonder why their record is trashed. But why should a nicher like that deserve to have their record treated like Taere's, Rigwarl's, and so on? The answer: they shouldn't.
| Rezakhan wrote: |
If the only point of the game was fighting at 50, then why allow pk'ing at lower levels at all?
I understand the rationale behind not wanting trash characters to completely screw up people's records; however, I think its foolish to penalize people for doing something allowed in the game (killing before 50). |
Just because it's allowed doesn't mean it's condoned. And does it make sense that when we go out of our way to try to use the carrot instead of the stick, we get complains that what we're trying to discourage is still "something allowed in the game"? Would you prefer if we auto-denied once someone has crossed the niching or multikilling threshold instead of penalizing OOC PK records? What are you, masochists?
We don't want you to multikill, niche, etc. It's simple: AR would be really lame if everyone did that -- it would lead to only dedicated OOC and/or cabal leveling groups are the only ones to hit 50 while everyone else would be grouping from being busy multikilling naked people at lower levels (easiest way to pad records). And we're trying to discourage you from doing so using a gentle but fair and effective method. Don't forget: de-fanging PK record penalties would sabotage the credibility of those who have accrued good records in respectable (and encouraged) ways. Our players should be rewarded properly for their achievements.
| Mandor wrote: |
| Everyone who plays will still know that person kills a load of people, which makes the record gimp useless, as all it will tell us is information we already know. |
You're forgetting that one reason we have this graveyard system is so that characters have a chance to have their characters memorialized for posterity's sake. Will everyone reading a graveyard record be someone who has interacted with that specific character? Of course not.
I think just about everyone would agree that the activities that are penalized (multikilling, niching, etc) are NOT behaviors that should be encouraged or rewarded. And neither are kills made in those ways an accurate gauge of one's competitive PKing ability, which our PK records aim to reflect. |
Could you expound on this a bit? |
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gr8mage
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 65
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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| marsd wrote: |
I don't think this system was built just to prevent people from PKing anyone (even those you have levels on) but more of, built just to discourage people staying at a particular rank AND killing people with ranks on you.
You can't group all PKs with ranks under as trash PKing, sometimes the charas have hit 40 for the cabal induction limit, and they killed a few people under them.... that's not trash, definitely.
I dunno why some people thinks trash = killing people 3 ranks down. More like, it's the same reason why you throw something away as rubbish/trash: Because you don't want it and don't care about what happens to it anymore.
The same as trash chars, these charas have no value in them anymore deemed by the players and hence they get to do anything they feel like doing (hence trash pking). |
Then the system doesn't reflect this at all, because it doesnt ask the player if they are killing because they dont care about RP or their character anymore. it goes by pk numbers and levels, not by your true intention, whatever that may be. I'd prefer to fight at lower levels on a character to learn the basics of its class. If I rank up to 50 I'm surrounded by the best, which doesn't make a good learning experience, especially since you'll look easy to pick on, inviting trash pk at 50, where there arent any penalties, and you'll condie before understanding the ins and outs of your class.
I'd suppose niche pking someone who you have quite a few ranks on looks like trash pk, because you are greatly advantaged. I dunno. |
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Dahlin
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
Posts: 99
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| How many fights do you need to be in to learn a class? If you can rack up over 100 kills before rank 50, you clearly know your class (unless the kills were all trash). |
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_Clifton_
Emissary
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1405
Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| gr8mage wrote: |
| If I rank up to 50 I'm surrounded by the best, which doesn't make a good learning experience, especially since you'll look easy to pick on, inviting trash pk at 50, where there arent any penalties, and you'll condie before understanding the ins and outs of your class. |
1) If you're looking to learn, I don't see why you would care about your pk record in the first place.
2) At 50, there's a lot more pressure to learn and to get better - higher expectations. So it's either you step up or get stepped on. |
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