Fix Keepers

[Arishel]

Okay. In a recent topic Dav stated that we should be thinking fix keepers instead of wishing warlords. Here is an idea to get this thought train rolling.

You know they have atonement. (That's the only thing I know that they have other than seeing how much someone is a danger)

New Skill- Displace
Skill Usage- This skill can only be used when the Keeper in action is fighting against uneven odds, since they are the epitome of balance.
When fighting the keeper can use this to seperate two/three/four would-be allies and make it a fair match. Single combat. This is familiar with Abduct/Imprison, but not meant to completely confine a one on one.
Skill description- Keeper begins fighting two. Oh crap, he's outnumbered. Keeper has to initiate/maybe not? c 'displace'$$. This would send the keeper and target to a remote area via teleport/groupgate etc. If they were displaced in Timaran, say They'll transfer to Mansion. The target won't be confined to the area, and can leave by whatever means, and his groupmate could run all the way there to help him, but it would involve them both trying to meet back up. This would allow the Two vs. One to be an actual usage of the one guy that just sits there and spams a skill and is lead around by the better player. The one spamming would actually have to do something by himself. This is a rough draft, but if anyone can add to it, have at. I just want to help out as much as I can.

[Xerties]

I like your thinking, Arishel.

However, in order to brainstorm ways to 'fix keepers' I think it would be beneficial to have a good list of what exactly is wrong with Keepers, aside from their apparent turtle fetish.

One thing that I'm aware of is that Keepers can't enlist help the way the other cabals can. It doesn't seem to me that this is an inherent problem with them, just something that is unimplemented.

Also their guardian is comparatively far weaker than any other cabal. I don't know why this would be, but I'm certainly open to hearing an explanation.

So beyond those two things, I'm not sure what the issues are with Keepers. I'd love to hear Amdo elaborate.

[Davairus]

Just what I've been looking for thanks. Remember the other topic where I was asking for suggestions for new strategies to win your fights by. I'm talking about things like overburdening your char with weight and realizing the goodness that comes from coupling that with a mv regen cabal power for keepers so that they don't fall ploy easily to such tactics (coz they are going to lug gambled shit). We stand to benefit from finding new dilemmas for players to find themselves in .

[Amdorin]

Things I've come across:

-TMNT fetish (Lol)

-Equipment:
---Since thews is the main set used, there's no reason to buy the other armors available outside of rings and necklaces. Also the armor tends to lean toward spell saves (like Timaran shops). So you're easily throwing away 100k+ just for a semi desirable item.
---On top of that the eq is rotdeath... so if you die.. 50-70k gone instantly reequipping (without buying armor). Keeper is easily one of the most expensive cabals to maintain competitiveness
---There needs to be an armor type store for held items for rogues. I think all combat oriented held items (stones) are rare in the realms.

-Skills:
--Seem to have only one main skill, though it works even during item capture, which helps.
--A lot of a Keeper's problems include having no means to isolate dangers or hinder their fleeing, so it results in hoarders like Lendorav heavens gating behind Shaldun underground or Faeries whenever there isn't a group for them around. We can't do anything about them if we can't reach or track them down.
--because of our single skill only competent fighters succeed in Keeper (which is ok). There's no other means to compensate for them (no other skills to fall back on [like healing weapon or spy]. I often hear "Keeper usually has strong people" but that's because they're the only ones that last, everyone else rage deletes in frustration of the politics involved from my rules (like no grudges) and their ability to fight back. I'm probably the most strict of the cabal leads (frustrating to its members), but I think it's necessary to keep from becoming a club of gankers.
--Also, there's no inherent penal flag or skill for misconduct of Therans. Once a flag is gone, outside of my say so or common sense, they won't be touched. Like the log I posted of someone floating around to full loot a Keeper's kill just to return the items back to the fallen. At the end of the day they only had a rare count of (1).

Hardline code of ethics:
-Since it's not very detailed on it's own I suppose this can be left up to the leader at the time to define rules of engagement. I don't know if that was to allow for different interpretations or just not as concrete as first thought. I've had to put a lot in order because of that. (Which I didn't mind doing)

Cabal Support:
-No, we didn't have enlist enabled (installed but not enabled), but it's been disabled for everyone now.
-Our cabal guardian is very weak, in health and damage. He does dirt kick, but compare that to the Holy Knight's curse/dispel/wrath/lightning bolt and healthy hp and it's nothing. The pinata in our cabal is supposed to be the reason for the weak guardian (everyone decent level should be able to get to it).

I think this needs a tweak, maybe weakening the pinata according to the rares it holds, the stronger the rares, the stronger it's enchanted to defend it. (that's probably really complicated though) But seeing how no one tries for the pinata while a Keeper is around, what's the point of having it inside the cabal? The guardian is dispatched easily enough anyway and the prior secrecy it had before when first introduced is pretty much gone now. How about placing it down a path with a few aggro mobs like a lowbie winter leading up to him? That way the guardian can be toned back up (maybe given an added skill as well)

I hear guardian returns faster but that's not something I've been able to notice/test for obvious reasons. The weak guardian allows for faster cabal item seizure as well. Yes we still have atonement (for now?), but cabal supplies are kaput. So yeah, that's what I can think of right now.

[Amdorin]

Just had a 'piggy back' idea:

That "path of aggro mobs" idea can turn into a maze Shrine to the Keeper of Artifacts or something, with the aggro mobs in the rooms leading to him. Nothing long and drawn out, just a few rooms.

[Davairus]

The lack of isolate/confine/whatever is a valid point, but then another good point is its been done. I can play a Legion if I want rift abducts, or a Justice if I want ensnares. I am trying to think up something more original. the displace skill here is the old legion abduct skill , so if you thought that up without knowing about it, thats pretty nice, but something else.

[Kalist19]

What about either making atonement disable your ability to word/gate/heavens gate, or giving them another skill of that capacity.

Or give atonement (or a new skill) the ability to separate someone from their group and prevent them from following/being followed (sort of like that bard song and the effect of errantry). That way if the keeper is fighting 2 or 3 people they have to track independantly and the keeper can just run fast enough so that he only has to fight the fastest of the 3 at any one time.

[rabidgecko]

I don't see as much of a problem with the group warfare. We keepers get the wrong end of 2v1s sometimes, and have to eat gangbangs, but that's just like everyone else. Knights get ganked by multiple evils, and Legions had to deal with people like Karleenandthola. I know I've said this before, but I see more of a problem with people who are continually evading fighting keepers, people like lendorav who just abuse the fact that we don't have summon and hide behind ten rooms of aggressive mobs in shadun. It's time to stop favoring the wusses of AR.

[Amdorin]

I see. Well I don't mind that enemies can get away, I just don't think it should be as easy. Another thing I noticed with the skill atonement is the way it's phrased. It comes off as more of a divine balancing. An idea:

Disruption - causes hysteria only transportation spells/skills/items? (i.e. word/gate/teleport/vanish/potions/pills)
-----The womb of the over-harvested Land has become bruised and She has fallen out of sync with her zealous denizens. Due to this, the ethereal link She holds with her children has become tattered and those at the front of Her disappointment will find trouble connecting to that link that enables them to transport about the land.

Karma - if casted upon the corpse of a fallen danger, their items will be reduced to the power they held after being affected by atonement. They will still count as rares, but will only count as 1 pt. Affected items will take on a (Dull) [or whatever] flag.
-----In the ways of nature, it is only right that one's actions determine their consequences and that one way or another will come back to impact their lives. This will encourage the fallen dangers to cast away their own rare armor in hopes that they understand their folly in relying on their power. (We talked about this in another forum, but I just gave it more ideal implementation)

I'll post here if anything else comes to mind.

[rabidgecko]

For something pretty different, maybe Keepers could have an ability that works like this:

Avenge - summons the target to the Keeper from a room in the same area, and causes the target to initiate attacks on the Keeper via murder. Standard lag, 1.5 rounds or so. Has a delay of (6, 12, 24?) hours before it can be recast on the same target.
--------(Working from amdo's ideas) Thera's ethereal link is tattered, but she can sometimes bend space to bring retribution to those who avoid it at the hands of her Keepers. The target finds himself suddenly shifted to the Keeper's position and is driven temporarily insane by this shift, leading him to attack the one who caused it, the Keeper.

[Emilise]

Something like this would need a buffer though. Ie you cant abduct someone without comparable health. So you couldnt beat the hell out of someone and be in far better health and then do it to stop them from running.

[rabidgecko]

It wouldn't be used on people who actually fight, just ones who are designated as avoiders by top ranked Keepers

[Arishel]

Another Idea Dav.

Balance(to do with weight, but the name of course fits well. Lol): A Keeper comes across many dangers within his/her travels in Thera. Thera itself has granted this ability to her faithful followers of balance. When this is cast upon a danger, the armor of that individual becomes heavy. Due to this fact the individual becomes a bit more sluggish in combat. Those with higher agility will find it more to suffer from than those with lower agility.
C 'balance'$$: Makes the item(s) of a player weigh more. Could be classified as this- Unique=3lbs Rare=2lbs Rare(below danger level)=1lbs.
Also could tinker with the agility of the player by a little bit.
I think this would be a good thing for keepers, but the atonement may be the icing on the cake if this were to happen. This may lead to atonement being too powerful, but you'll be the judge of that if this even makes it past the comitee that is voting for the comitee, that is..Lol
I have another idea, but I want to think about it a little bit more. I'll post it within a day or so.

[Stiehl26]

I would like to put forth that high dex races already suffer quite a bit from hobble, adding something to further hinder them may be a bit too much.