Steal revamp idea

[Esivole]

Feel free to squash the idea.

-situation-
Okay, so i was informed by an immortal that it is against the rules to drop things and go to retrieve them later when fighting. NO, this is not suiciding. Yes, this is logical. Suiciding is where you go with the intent of dying and then go back and get your items. Thief fighting is - "i don't need this weapon/armor when fighting this thief. No point of letting them steal and sacrifice all of my inventory." Mage fighting is - "i have a full inventory after switching all of my hit/dam eq for saves making it hard to sort through inventory when needed." Since i know that the thief is going to steal/sacrifice, or that the mage can locate and the retrieve/sacrifice them. With the rules as they are now. The problem i see is that i basically HAVE let the thief steal and sacrifice my things. (i know i could always just not fight or not get blackjacked... duh) The mage ideas above are reference to how it affects the classes, I am focusing on thieves here though.
SUICIDE = intent of dying
DROPPING = intent of fighting

-Idea... multiple choice-
1. Make it perfectly legal to drop things you don't need when fighting any race/class

2. Give a cooldown to steal so that a thief cannot steal/sacrifice everything know to man in one shot, at least drawing it out and giving the opponent a chance to catch the thief (which is still unlikely)

No, i am not doing this for my own good, I play thieves as well.

Thanks in advance.

[TheOneAndOnly]

You need to gain a global perspective on this, rules are created for broad sweeping general areas of concern. Where as it is not "your" intention to operate in a manner that would violate the rules, many others of your fellow players will. Examples: I've played many an illusionist and I loved the doppleganger ability - it's gone now because players were able to exploit it. I've been around for a while, and players will do some pretty egregious things, dropping all your pretty gear and letting people collect contracts, dueling their own players to pad Warlord records, not to mention just good ole fashion multi'ing. The rules are in place to protect the integrity of the game as a whole.

While I understand your points - thieves are supposed to steal, their is supposed to be an inherent risk factor to pk. Losing your gear is the fundamental risk reward system that makes pk fun, other aspects have been added to enhance the system (pk rating, Juggernaut, etc) but the core is still to kill to loot. Your ideas would circumvent that fundamental concept and thus be detrimental to the game as a whole.

I feel your pain though, I've had characters so decked out in unique and rare equipment that I couldn't put saves gear on because I wouldn't have room to pull a purple from my sack. So I had to make a decision to fight unsanced (not happening) or leaving myself vulnerable to spells. I think this type of scenario was intended.

[Ceridwel]

[Resatimm]

This is with my players hat on, not my Immortal hat:

I often dropped my extra inventory in an out of the way place when fighting thieves. To me it was ludicrous to think that anyone would battle a thief lugging around 3 or 4 uniques that they dont use in their inventory. That just isnt logical. The caveat to that is that I only ever dropped extra equipment, not wielded things, such as nimbuses, or things prone to being pried off.

Rarely do I comment on another Immortals decision. What he said is the law, so don't drop your gear when fighting thieves, BUT I reserve the right to debate it in private!

[Davairus]

I am happy with the present state of steal and I don't think it is in any immediate need of nerfs, however, down the road when more work gets done on the class, steal among other things will eventually need looking at.

[geadin]

Something to think on: What if the thief has to drop something in order to steal or pilfer a item from you? I had to drop my items all the time in order to steal the other players sack or whatever, then I'd go back and get my items(sack).

[Fireballer]

[FenixMajere]

and now they will.
Steal dont need to be changed imo it has a lag time blackjack aint that long so it works out.

[Stiehl26]

I think the real purpose in this thread was not to change steal, but to allow the dropping of inventoried items before fighting one.

There is no reason in the world to not allow the dropping of things that are your character's item and that same character is hopefully going to retrieve them. There is plenty of risk involved when dropping items, perhaps more then when fighting a thief, as any joe blow could pick up the items on the ground if they found them.

The OP, I believe, should have addressed the issue that was bothering him, and perhaps explain why he was doing this rather than proposing changes to the thief class itself.

[Esivole]

Okay, i can see why no changes want to be made to steal. Perhaps i should have made the focus different. At least the idea is out there.

So, the idea to be allowed to drop things with out punishment from the heavens. Like Gaedin said, a thief needs to drop things in able to make a steal in many cases. So to me there really isn't a difference here, Dropping things you don't need in order to fight/(steal) more efficiently. Obviously with the intent to retrieve them on the Same char... otherwise would be just dumb. And as stiehl26 pointed out, anyone could trot by and pick them up as well. its a trade off that i think should be allowed, instead of having just the one option of losing items you never needed in the fight.

[_Clifton_]

there's a difference between dropping an item right when you need to in order to be able to steal and dropping an item in a remote corner with the former being pragmatic and the latter being hoarding (in the squirrel sense of the word)

[Insom]

I totally agree with Res on this issue but with non rares. Back in the early early days, I armed myself with red dragon and two ivy swords and tried to take on Res necro. It was more suicidal than anything else. I decided that I was going to fight to death because the first time i fought him, i got him to awful and was one fireball away from winning when my auto wimpy kicked in and his next acid blast finished me. The point here is that I didn't want to requip naked so I went got another suit, dropped it off and figured if I die I will just go pick it up and try again. Now i've done my share of multing so most immortals would not believe me but there is no intent to break the rules here. Haven't you guys seen movies where weapons are stashed everywhere in case they need it? I feel this is the same.

[Davairus]

Unfortunately there is a fairly new Immortal recruit involved in this incident and has been rightly pointed out, it is an error, albeit a well-meaning one that I can see players have understood the reasons for. This is not an action which is against the game rules. I've spoken to him - he regrets this outcome and promises that it will not happen again. Keep in mind that items left lying around are vulnerable to other players and "finders keepers" - and locate object can make those items turn up really easily.

[Esivole]

It was not my intention to roast anyone on this.
Thanks for dissolving the issue.

[Insom]

So ugh just to be sure, is dropping a suit of equipment somewhere legal or not? In terms of advanced reequipment purposes.

[Ergorion]

I think that if you happen to be using treant thews and have some spare time on your hands so you stick another set of treant thews in the tree at the circle of trees just in case you die is alright. But then again, you always run the risk of giving someone else a free set of eq.

[_Clifton_]

[Vhrael]

Here's the bottom line:

- Yes, you can stash *INVENTORY* items elsewhere before fighting, the argument being that you're trying to make room/weight for PK loots or whatever. Keep in mind that if you're found to be "rem all;drop all;commence PK"-ing then you're probably gonna get popped for suicide and punished.

- If you do stash items, make DAMN SURE you get them back with the character who dropped them, and don't just come back the next day or whenever it's convenient with another character and think "Hmm, I never needed that red dragon, I'll just give it to my lowbie dk." ** YOU WILL GET BUSTED FOR MULTI, AND YOU WON'T LIKE IT. **

[Resatimm]

The thief needs to be smart. I made people regret doing that with Blonk.

Go into a fight against some hoarder. I peek him, and see he is missing A B and C. Immediate flee, and frantic tells to any person with locate to try to find his stash. Once I know the room name, sprint to it, or frantically search the maps to find the room name. Easy money.

It is a fine line. Drop things at your own risk.