Low-levels class balance.

[Davairus]

So the topic here is basically whether the game is balanced for low levels (think first about level 15, then 20, and especially 30) and what we can do to improve the balance there.

For example some of the standouts at 30 are shaman, dk, warrior, thief, berserker, ninja, any more? acid blast sucks now I guess.
Down at level 15 you basically only have to be a warrior or a ninja to have a big advantage, because of early dual wield / third attack type of crap, and their damage output being super-high if they have a multied set (because enhanced damage is so strong especially on giants that get 100%). Those skills could go up in levels without ruining their balance at level 30 which seems to be a lot better. It'd dick with the levelling but we can adjust mob hp and then all the underpriviliged classes catch up a bit so its better overall.
I would like to increase this figure up to all classes, maybe via skill arrangement, or just throwing out a easy to get affbreak item if that helps.

Let me know what is suffering.

[Fireballer]

The issue is interesting because it not only differs by class, but by race of that class. i can't go in depth right now, though.

[Erlwith]

Illusionists obviously suffer, probably due to terrible defenses/lowhp/access to limited dupes.

I think rangers at that lvl played right are fin.

Invokers need some help. Low hp and poor exchange of mana per damage spell vs players. Protective shell at low levels that randomly absorbs 20-100 dmg?

[Fireballer]

I've been kicking this idea around on my own for since the last week or so, but essentially it runs along the lines of a total skill tree shakeup for classes.

For instance, what if we delayed third attack and made fourth attack the last skill for warriors to get, while making riposte and double grip much lower on the skill tree?

We lessen the damage, and increase the versatility of classes and the gameplay is a lot more interesting too. It seems like the game only really starts to get fun after classes get their unique skill/spell set.

we could lower the duplicate spell to rank 20, for instance, and that allows person 1 dupe, and 2 at 40, 3 at 50. it increases the pk potential where they suck, adds a level of interest and complexity, and also provides a minor buff to levelling solo.

It seems like a major rework for all this, however, and some classes may suffer. If I could time-machine back to 1998 though, I'd encourage this idea. in the case of the warrior, you'd see less DPS from them at low ranks, where they reign king, and this overgeared warriors are much less harmful, and more time for players to learn to use skills "skillfully". And the fights would be more interesting than lowbie flee murder spam.


There was a good log of a 19-20 level fire vs storm giant where they were going crazy with barrage and sideswipes and disarms, and it was simply amazing to read as opposed to flee/murder/flee/murder.

I think another aspect of this idea of increasing the wait time for extra attacks is that flee murders aren't obviously superior to disarm or shield or offhand disarm. Now they become more useful because fights last longer and it becomes more about reducing enemy damage or defenses.

[Vertas]

Well I feel like now there's not as much of a reason to stay a low level, it used to be in cabals especially that you got inducted at 35 or whatever and then had to accomplish something before being allowed to rank, or were only allowed to rank to 40 or whatever and then had to sit. Now the incentive is to just get to 50 as quick as possible.

[Erlwith]

The game is just structured in a way that rewards you for being lvl 50 and seems to punish you otherwise.

Skills, gold and items all come easier at 50. PvP is more balanced, or at least more forgiving at 50. RP is easier at 50 since you can focus on RPing the way you want and not about if xyz will like you enough to group with you or if you kill abc will they not one to group with you on their alt?? People also play better at 50. I'd much rather go gear hunting with 50s that know the game vs stubborn level 10s that are ready to spend an hour getting to/dying to/waiting for black-tear instead of just waiting for an appropriate level. The list goes on, the respect comes at 50, all the fun cabal stuff happens at 50, all the exciting areas are at 50. I don't see what reason people would have for not just racing to 50.

Edit: I have some suggestions but not in a place to really work them out right now.

[Hrimoyan]

[Fireballer]

[Smotpoker]

because killing someone with a magic missile is like saying you suck while tea-bagging them

[Dispater]

lowlevel pk is shitsuck anyway, because you don't get any xp and that's fakken tarded.

[Esivole]

First way to balance low levels. Get rid of rares affecting luck. Though I understand you don't want ass hats hoarding shit at 30 and attempting to rape with it. What you don't want is some one with huge exp gap fighting someone 5 ranks above him and can't even use some decent eq to help balance it. lets say a rank 30 and a rank 35. The rank 30 already has a huge disadvantage by rank, but now is also gimped even more by not being able to use some equipment by fear of having calamitous or rock bottom luck. Both of those are easy to get by having 3 to 4 rares above your rank. even a rank 34 vs a 35 has a huge equipment disadvantage. then imagine a rank 34 vs a 40. The higher rank in each scenario has such greater options for equipment without luck getting screwed. Happened on caidolese a lot coming up and it was annoying. So if a rank 30 wants to get a thick belt wrought with blue stones, double plated arm guards, thin bladed axe, etc... he can't without getting screwed on luck.

By ridding the game of this non role playing aspect of luck affecting things, you don't have a fight weighing in the higher rank in two ways all of the time. You now have people who can spend gold (opening the markets more creating a better economy) and both sides can get rares without luck affects instead of just the higher rank. The current set up is another reason people will ooc power rank their chars when they can so you don't have to deal with a Very up hill battle.

[Fireballer]

http://ar.invokation.net/logs/view.php?id=4966

This is a particular stellar example of how "fair" rank advantage is. Guild issue warrior fighting without sanctuary.

If we have given classes huge buffs and even bigger nerfs, haven't we equalized their powers so as to finally do away with or lessen the experience cost rates?