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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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 Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| But my question is, is this really a problem, or are you guys just griping? |
Your argument seems to be that newbies need to be punished for not knowing the game mechanics. e.g. if I type "dirt" and if you were already dirted, I take 50 damage for not knowing that. That is a burden of knowledge that is just deliberately screwing over the player, and that makes it anti-fun. Do rogues get AMAZING rewards from doing this correctly? IIRC, its 3 rounds of lag to perform a sidestep. I am not saying we need to totally remove anti-fun mechanics, but they need to be worth having if we do have them. I think that in this case the complete shutdown from dirt and hobble more than justifies removing it. |
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Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Olyn wrote: |
| Ozaru wrote: |
| wait a minute let me get this right, the game now will auto switch weapons or auto pick weapons for you when someone changes? if that is the case why even have combat styles and weapon style advantages, might as well just go back to the old style without adv/dis if the game does it for you. |
Nobody said it does that.
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| We will be touching up the rogue weapon skills so that those pick weapons from inventory when needed, instead of just letting you do something stupid with them. There will be a fumble doing this which is based on quick wield skill. The idea here is rogues do get a bit easier to play. It will not automatically select vuln weapons and combat style etc |
That's what it sounds like. It wont select vuln or combat style when you hit clobber and have a sword out, so im guessing it will at least select a mace to clobber with, which is basically like auto switching into a skill that turns into two or three skills. |
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Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Davairus wrote: |
They have less hp than warriors, and less defences, and less weapon selections, so they don't have that ability to stand toe-to-toe that you are worrying about. In fact if you just dirt (or hobble) a thief, all of his weapon-type combat skills are just disabled until it wears off, so warriors can shut them down really hard. Does a thief shut a warrior down really hard? No, because they can even switch weapons blinded with double grip, and have blind fighting, warcry to negate the lost hitroll from dirt (which is otherwise a buff), etc. To compensate, we gave thief "quick wield".
I thought this was fairly easy to understand conceptually. Let me know if anything I've just said is news to you, and I'll try to get the helpfiles updated. |
obligatory crying about hybrids getting owned by rogues again.
| Ergorion wrote: |
I think the agile rogue part is covered with the quick wield aspect.
I agree with Ozaru in the feeling that this change dumbs down the game a bit. And that part of the game is typing in a skill that isn't applicable and lagging yourself for the time it takes that skill to be input and for you to register your mistake. Does this make it harder for newbies? A bit. But AR has been a school of hard knocks since I've started playing and there's no way to learn like messing up real bad once or twice and figuring out how to do things right. |
Honestly, it seems like things got a little too complex and cumbersome, so it's being revised. I don't think "dumbing down" is the right phrase, but at the same time AR did get a little too complex and fiddly (I still roll people with warriors). |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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If the issue is that having additional comboing is too much "automation", lets address that more directly. So that if you go the simpler route, you wouldn't get the full skill combo. No additional trips, rakes, dirts, etc. That is acceptable my end. Remember, we've recently done this a little bit for unholy armor, to make dk's a bit better. i.e. blocking half the skill instead of the whole skill. This time, they'd be inflicting it on themselves, and its something which you guys are already used to.
And yes, "fiddly" is the word I've been looking for. Thank you.
I have a bunch of stuff I need to get done before I can get around to this, so there's lots of time for anybody who wants to say their piece to chime in. |
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Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:02 am Post subject: |
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| I'd like to suggest that disarm dropping to ground should have effect for disarm and shield disarm, but not for barrages and rakes, which are similar skills to each other. Seems a little op to both deprive a defense and prevent wearing a shield due to distension and then it might even get dropped on top of that since fleeing is really the only way to protect from the numbed arm. I notice hybrids have a minor protection against this, but other classes will probably be suffering for this. |
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Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012
Posts: 379
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| Oh, this also gives shield disarm a bit more utility than before (if it wasn't affected by the change, only disarm and barrage were mentioned), and I think barrage and other skills like that are good as is, used by hitting people who lag themselves in combat while inferior. I still wish disarm and shield disarm would have been ways to go from inferior to equal or superior style in combat, giving those skillls more meaning. That can't work in the current paradigm, tho.. |
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