Bulwark suggestions

[Xenyar]

Here is a few ideas for bulwark...
-Bulwark needs to start at 0, instead of a 100. That is equivalent to a free 100 hp for your opponent to go through...with absolutely no investment by the DK. start at zero and build up from there.
-It needs to have a max that is not based on the chars hp level. Max it at 300 or something.
- spamming cast 'abyssal' should not regenerate bulwark.(as seen in the most popular log lately, darzan was able to spam this and increase his bulwark.) That needs to be removed and leave it solely up to fell spark to increase it.
-if not removing the regeneration from spamming cast 'abyssal', then it needs to cost a lot more mana to use. like 60 mana, no 15-20 like it is now(I think?)
-unholy strength takes a mana upkeep, unless thats changed. Having both unholy str up and bulwark will increase the mana upkeep from unholy str. The higher you build your bulwark(while unholy strength is up)...the higher the mana upkeep.

There's just a few ideas to brainstorm on... and maybe create some better ideas. Please, Nyc...do not bash me for my constructive thoughts or say I'm mad because I've been "dunked on" or whatever it is you say. I'm just trying to help. So let's generate some good ideas together...as a community. Thank you.

[Nycticora]

ofc, I'll take this seriously and respond to each point:

1. Bulwark giving bonus HP was an intentional focus of the rework. This is not an oversight. The alternative was increasing DK hp per level gain.

2. If the max isn't based on the character's current HP it's just that much more bonus HP than they have already. The effect this would have is promoting even more "pump and dump" gameplay. A DK would pump his HP and cast Unholy Strength and bash bash bash. This was, itself, the original problem the rework was intended to solve.

3. 'c abyssal' casting is also an intentional focus of the rework and is straight-up returning something to DKs that they've always had that was removed rather recently (cure light).

4. DK mana regen is terrible. Decreasing the mana efficiency of Abyssal Bulwark is probably not an option. Removing it entirely again may be an option but that would leave DKs with only Fell Spark as an option for regenerating HP, which is just a less efficient Necromancer mechanic (vamp touch). I don't like the implications of that.

5. Increasing the mana drain of Unholy Strength promotes further "pump and dump" gameplay and renders DK maledictions worthless.

The above is not meant to tear apart your ideas - they are just direct responses to each point individually.


Please take the following into account while considering your reply:

Even with Abyssal Bulwark fully charged as high as it can possibly be, the dark knight you are complaining about has an effective max HP of less than 900.

[Dogran]

The problem I see with that statement is this.

Currently Bulwark goes up when you take damage. Cabaled Dk's are going to have help. IE Legion and Justice both have the potential for Shaman's and with this pbase Most Dk's don't make enemies out of Shamans. So theoretically. I am a Justice DK. I run out and fight decked Lorne, who Mania and Rages at me for crazy damage, and I end up fleeing. I flee, and I have (empty) 500 bulwark capability. I run back to My shaman. While I am franticy casting abyssal, Shaman is healing me. Now I have one of the highest Damage ranges Combined with defenses in the game, AND I have 1400 hp... That is pretty sick. Recovered HP should cancel out the cap on bulwark so that becomes impossible.

[Clifton]

The problem with that fight as I see it is this.

Etel engaged, took Darzan pretty low died -- so Darzan now gets up to + 450hp because of being recently engaged in combat. Then, Drakiin comes rushing in just in time as Darzan's fully healed up to take advantage of his recently buffed Bulwark, all while he had about ~65% hp, engages in a no exit, and gets smoked against a ridiculously geared DKN with 112% of base hp (maxed out bulwark). Why is this so surprising?

If you look at the log, there is never a single instance where Darzan can get max hp of more than 891. You guys are focusing on the smoke and mirrors instead of the numbers.

That is possibly the worst 2v1 in a no exit I have ever seen.

[Davairus]

Xenyar you seem to be oblivious to the fact that you are directly insulting an Immortal while trying to say lets be grownups.

[Andrael]

Nadrin, when you get healed, the cap for abyssal bulwark does go down. Its directly related to your missing health, if I'm not mistaken.

[Olyn]

As an fyi and a possible lesson to someone who thinks something is broken or op, I looked at the log of dk pwning warrior with bulwark up (http://abandonedrealms.com/logs/view_log.php?id=165) and thought damn, that isn't right.

Here's the steps I took:

1. Expressed my concern that something didn't look right in a comment without poo-flinging.
2. Followed up by clarifying the specific numbers (hp, bulwark, etc.) that concerned me.
3. Made a dark-knight and tested for myself.
4. Arrived at a conclusion - bulwark is 100% fine. The issue is that bulwark isn't effectively conveyed to the dk's opponent.
5. Discuss bulwark conveyance with the other coders and determine how to better convey it.
6. Win.

Expect to be able to see when you're smacking a dk's bulwark within the week.

[Kato]

As an IMP, shouldn't you know that process is against the rules, Olyn? To follow the rules to the letter, the steps are:

1. Get mad
2. Fling poo
3. Somebody flings poo at you and you get more mad
4. Get called out by an imm for your pooflinging
5. Make a poll where opinions trump logic
6. Make another poll. I like polls

[Esivole]

Kato, you forgot step 7.

7. Don't like poll result, go to step 1.

[ottif]

really olyn? cuz I've seen people follow your steps before, and they either get called an idiot by dav or a gay/racial slur by nyc. i mostly follow my own 3 steps.

1) if something is overpowered complain or don't who cares, it is just a game
2) realize game balance is shit (one person furiously entering commands, switching weapons, etc. - the other? spamming one spell)
3) hang out with friends maybe get lit n feel my oats

[Davairus]

You do realize, spellcasters have less defenses and less total hp. If they don't stop casting those spells, they get outdamaged. Maybe you should focus a little less on trying to switch weapons continuously and a little more on a better trained/equipped fighter, especially versus a dark-knight, because you have plenty opportunities to LAG them and prevent casting of spells, especially when they are predictably on two-handed and sideswipe shield is a purposely overpowered counter to it

[Nycticora]

link to example of me calling someone a racial slur or you're full of shit

[Faelon]

Davairus, from what I have seen, sideswipe/barrage/hobble don't work on paladins or dark knights. Unholy Armor prevents it.

[Nycticora]

That's not 100% accurate but it's close enough Faelon. I brought this up in the Paladin thread on the ideas board with a suggested nerf for both dk and paladin

[Davairus]

Ok that was patched over as a bandaid fix to them being in the toilet and needs to be removed now that they are not. We've said that all along so someone couldve probably raised that

but
remove for dk only until paladins are checked out

[Nycticora]

ack