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m1coftw
Joined: 05 May 2015 Posts: 265
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:51 pm Post subject: PK rock paper scissors 2015 |
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From all the chars I have rolled and PK'd with imo, this is how this breaks down (Solely mechanic vs mechanic, with equal skill and eq):
CASTERS:
Illus > Necros, invokers, thieves, shadows, shamans, healers, monks, paladins, DKS
Illus < rangers, bards, serkers
Necros > thieves, shadows, shamans, healers, paladins, dks, monks, non-giant serkers
Necros < illus, bards, certain serkers, rangers
Invokers > thieves, shadows, fire warriors, low hp warriors/rangers (elves etc), bards, monks, healers, shamans
Invokers < illus, necros, serkers, paladins, dks,
FIGHTERS:
Warriors > necros, thieves, shadows, bards, invokers, illus
Warriors < serkers, shamans, dks, paladins, monks, healers
Berserkers > thieves, shadows, invokers, rangers, healers, shamans, illus, dks, paladins
Berserkers < necros, bards, HGOD
Rangers > Shamans, healers, thieves, shadows, bards, invokers, illus
Rangers < Necros, serkers, monks
ROGUES:
Shadows > thieves, bards
Shadows < rest
Thieves > themselves
Thieves < all
HYBRIdS:
Paladins > warriors, thieves, shadows, shamans, monks, invokers, bards
Paladins < serkers, healers, illus, necros, rangers
DKS > warriors, thieves, shadows, shamans, healers, monks, invokers, bards, serkers, rangers
DKS < necros, illus
Feel free to discuss/correct it. |
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DoomAlone
Joined: 05 Jun 2015 Posts: 11
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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Invoker > Shaman? Wow...the world I knew is gone...
The main thing I take from this is that you see rogues in general and thieves in particular as underpowered. Care to elaborate on that? |
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Kato
Joined: 03 Nov 2013 Posts: 219
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think m1co is correct about all of this. Shamans and healers will crap on invokers if they don't fuck up, especially now that slow was nerfed. I'd put invokers solidly above fire warriors, and at a disadvantage against everyone else.
Rogues are also off. If you're using an arena fight as your metric, sure -- rogues will get stomped. But situationally, rogues can become very strong. Shadow is the only class that has a chance to kill literally ANYONE - with hide, they can pick their battles easily and only engage when they have an advantage or land a strangle.
Also stuff like berserker > healer is silly, healers clearly have the advantage there.
Prognosis - good start, but by no means is this a set of refined comparisons |
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m1coftw
Joined: 05 May 2015 Posts: 265
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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This was more of a toe-to-toe comparison. As I said with equal skill and no surprise/outplaying elements. |
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Ozaru
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Posts: 1074
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Im no second grader but can u explain this:
Necros < illus, bards, certain serkers, rangers
Rangers < Necros, serkers, monks |
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m1coftw
Joined: 05 May 2015 Posts: 265
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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It was not supposed to be there, I had something else in mind, can't recall what it was right now. |
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DoomAlone
Joined: 05 Jun 2015 Posts: 11
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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"When a Necromancer dies his body becomes the grass, and the Rangers eat the grass. And so we are all connected in the great Circle of Life."
(Citing as precedent "Lions vs. Antelope" circa 1994) |
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Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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idk what that means but it sounded pretty dank |
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m1coftw
Joined: 05 May 2015 Posts: 265
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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That just means that all the vegetarians are cannibals in disguise. |
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DoomAlone
Joined: 05 Jun 2015 Posts: 11
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Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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That was how Mufasa rationalised and justified the slaughter of countless antelope by fallaciously suggesting that the relationship between lions and antelope is circular (as is apparently the case with necromancers and rangers, where necromancer > ranger > necromancer).
It definitely doesn't seem funny now...
And anyone who doesn't get the reference didn't have a childhood. |
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Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:48 am Post subject: |
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Or we're all really old and/or young. |
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m1coftw
Joined: 05 May 2015 Posts: 265
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:50 am Post subject: |
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THIS was my childhood, welcome |
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Ashlyn
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 287
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:09 am Post subject: |
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I don't really agree with this because even with equal skill and gear, situation has a lot to do with it. Say im fighting a Zerker, im not going to be out in the open and let him rage, im going to be summoning mobs or standing next to something big to fuck him over. With a necro im going to be summoning/killing zombies. etc.
You know what seems strong right now... Drow Shadow. With the racial as long as you can flee and don't get lagged to death after failing a strangle/ass and you're half competent you're fucking terrifying. |
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Ashlyn
Joined: 20 Oct 2006 Posts: 287
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:09 am Post subject: |
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Also Healers> All |
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m1coftw
Joined: 05 May 2015 Posts: 265
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:25 am Post subject: |
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I have two words to say about a drow shadow: hobble, buddyslam.
I rest my case |
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Andrael
Joined: 15 Jan 2013 Posts: 779
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:52 am Post subject: |
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I want someone to make a berzerker and have them make a thing where they yell "BUDDY!" if they start fight with a bodyslam |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10351 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:21 am Post subject: |
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invoker < paladin .
haha
mana shield and dispel magic say hi |
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m1coftw
Joined: 05 May 2015 Posts: 265
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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saves and physical/magic weapon, say hi |
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Faelon Emissary
Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 938 Location: Your moms house.
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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Only invoker I ever had a problem with on Marest was Raqaz. Primarily because of slow and perma-flight through scrolls. With those two things, he just ran through doors and caught ticks for 150hp gains, to come back again.
Now, with slow debuffed for hp, invokers may have jumped the other direction. |
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Andrael
Joined: 15 Jan 2013 Posts: 779
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Raqas was a quasit, so he flew naturally. |
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