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m1coftw
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Joined: 05 May 2015 Posts: 265
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Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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You can't expect reality in a fantasy game. You can still talk shit to drug cartel in their HQ (invade cabal for example) and you have a magical shield that protects you. |
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Faelon Emissary
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 938 Location: Your moms house.
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Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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M1co, then you have to ask in that universe that you are referring to, "Does the cartel then have a magician to drop said magical shield, thereby providing an expedient way to shoot you in the mush?"
The point is, that if you create these examples, we have to follow them through. If a person, any person, in any example of fantasy goes in for a dangerous job, such as looting some items from someone else who is more powerful then they are, they are very likely going to have to deal with the danger they created. The problem in AR right now, limited to the idea of looting corpses, is that there is zero danger of reprisal. Is there a chance you are going to have to fight every bastard at your own level to keep the shit you looted? Very likely. But the individual who wanted to loot things and the individual who was looted both have zero ability to do anything to the looter.
I don't think we should limit what is looted, I think that the looter should know that it will be their balls on the anvil, if they decide that is the way forward. |
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Kedaleam Immortal
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Joined: 25 Mar 2006 Posts: 989 Location: Michigan
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Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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Those logs are great. Thank you. |
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Davairus Implementor
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10351 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 12:29 am Post subject: |
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i liked the part where they both had vulching in them. Imagine if power of cheese could've run wild on them as well |
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Andrael
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Joined: 15 Jan 2013 Posts: 779
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Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 12:49 am Post subject: |
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Those logs made my day after having a shitty day. Thanks Nyc, and I've never really experienced vultering on me, it was normally always people killing me then taking my stuff... Most of the time, I didn't have much good things, they just wanted to be a dick :/ |
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DoomAlone
Joined: 05 Jun 2015 Posts: 11
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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I don't understand the motivation behind full-looting beyond pure OOC malice. I take anything I want from a corpse and nothing more, even if I'm playing a chaotic evil character.
This is because I desperately don't want the other guy to rage delete, or even to just take a week off out of frustration. The player base just can't handle it. However much of a douchebag the other guy is, in the end I'm grateful that he's around to fight me.
And you might say "hold on, that's not very evil of you..." to which I would reply that the cold-blooded murder I just carried out was surely evidence enough of my character's evil intent. Hell, I'll insult his mother and wear his head as a trophy if you want IC evidence of malice, but I won't actively try to frustrate the player, because we need him to keep playing. |
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Olyn Immortal
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3249 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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I full loot if the guy goes out of his way to be an asshole or if I have a legitimate reason to not want him coming for more in 3 minutes, such as in the middle of a group fight or interrupts my training/ranking group. |
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DoomAlone
Joined: 05 Jun 2015 Posts: 11
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah I guess I understand that, and I'd probably apply it if the player base was healthier. But when I log on and there's no one else around, I'd still rather have that asshole, with his passable equipment, than nobody.
I suppose my position is this: The risk of losing a player ultimately outweighs all other concerns. This extends even to in-character roleplaying concerns.
I would even advocate a system that prevented full-looting (I know purists would hate this) but guaranteed SOME looting. For example, you have one minute in which to loot a corpse at will, but you can only take up to five items (and all gold). During this time the other character remains a ghost and cannot loot his own corpse. This ensures that you always get what you were after (even if the coward temple-sits) but never totally ruin his will to play.
You also mentioned the need to remove your adversary from an on-going conflict, and that is a very good point. However, I would rather just force a fallen player to remain a ghost (or something similar) for longer than take away all his things. Maybe a ten-minute period in which he cannot partake in PvP? I totally agree that a dead player should not be able to immediately re-engage, but there's got to be a better way. |
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m1coftw
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Joined: 05 May 2015 Posts: 265
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Why would anyone care about equipment whilst it is so easy to attain?
If you die, you are supposed to lose everything anyway, serves you right.
If I wanted to keep my eq I'd be playing WoW with other carebears.
Pretty sure that the people who play AR play it because of what it is, not what it should be. |
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Faelon Emissary
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Joined: 23 Feb 2006 Posts: 938 Location: Your moms house.
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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I think we can all be fairly certain that we also want to see the game mature and grow. Idea's aren't a bad thing. Personally, I am opposed to the idea, but not for the reasons you are. Let's try to be even keeled when someone brings a new idea up.
My opposition stems from that fact that some people have more rare pieces of equipment that I want to loot, then just five. I can also point to the fact that some times, a drow isn't going to be able to loot a giant with ease, but this would give them time to be picky about what they grab. I don't like that. If you wanted a high str loot bear, choose a different race, is how I look at it. |
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DoomAlone
Joined: 05 Jun 2015 Posts: 11
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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(Wall of text imminent: Skip to the last sentence if you're in a hurry)
Yeah I'm here for the same reasons you are. The lack of player killing and/or associated consequences are what prevent me from playing any of the MMOs. I want death to suck and the best players to have the most powerful characters, as opposed to the MMOs where time-sink is the only factor. But I think some people take real pleasure in the idea that the other guy is fuming in front of his keyboard, and that's never done it for me. I want him to know that I've won and I want my character to profit from it, but that's it, and I can think of very few instances where another character has more than five items that I actually want.
You mentioned items being easy to come by at the moment, and I have noticed that as well. Rares going for a pittance on the auction house that would have been quite desirable back in the day. But that's probably down to the low player base, which may be due in part to the punish-for-the-sake-of-punishment attitude of some players. I know they have a right to that attitude and its accommodated by the rules, but I also think it might put off others unnecessarily, particularly new players who already have a serious uphill struggle on their hands.
A sense of victory or defeat is very important to me. The feeling that the other player is totally destroyed is not. Plus, leaving them items (even powerful align-locked items that you might be tempted to sacrifice) sends a clear message that you don't fear them. If I've beaten them once then I'm always up for round two.
Quote: "Pretty sure that the people who play AR play it because of what it is, not what it should be."
- There's a lot of truth in this, but surely we can agree that "the people who play AR" is not really a big enough group. I too wish we could fill the realms with the truly hard core, but most people are pussies and sometimes you have to meet the pussies half way.
BOTTOM LINE: If there's a chance it will make someone rage delete then I almost certainly won't do it, because one player is a big deal right now. |
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Vevier Immortal
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 1642 Location: everywhere
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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To be fair though, most of the people who delete over losing a set of EQ fall into one of two categories: rage-rinse-repeat or that old char who you were just keeping around cause it was too good with its eq and now that you've lost it, the character can rest in peace. At least, that's how I see it. |
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Dogran Immortal
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Joined: 13 Jun 2009 Posts: 1797
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Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:47 am Post subject: |
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There is no better feeling to walk away to take a piss, and come back to find that someone has just afk killed you and full looted you, coming back with guild issue and taking all your stuff back. |
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DoomAlone
Joined: 05 Jun 2015 Posts: 11
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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Lol yeah. And even re-equipping from mobs can be oddly therapeutic.
Ok scratch looting limits. But I would still be on board with something that prevented the strategy of temple-sitting to avoid being looted. I hate it when I kill someone for one specific item and he manages to cheese me out of it by dying at temple. |
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Davairus Implementor
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10351 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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There is... they get lagged extra time. Its like 3 rounds also. |
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