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Berserker updates Dec 2016
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Vanisse
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:11 pm    Post subject:

Well...it's hardcoded that we can't actually initiate unless their ethos/align is 0 or one axis off... I ran into that problem multiple times previously. Not sure if you want ethos changes for berserkers.
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Nycticora
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 4:11 pm    Post subject:

just pray when you make a berserker and I'll make sure to take care of it. If I don't get back to you post your char's name in the bugs and observations and we'll change the align to neutral while you're offline

maybe we can convince dav to make lawful berserkers when he's done contemplating the meaning of stonehenge

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbyzgeee2mg
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Vevier
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 5:05 pm    Post subject:

I think a better fix is to realign the skins so they have to follow different gods instead of breaking rules for berserkers
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Olyn
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:29 pm    Post subject:

CG, CN, and CE aligns covers all zerkers.

Aberdour instead of Sarich and Zylenier/Darkhan instead of Davairus. Nycticora would know how to best connect the evil thing. Alternatively, just do dragon colors instead of deities.
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Vevier
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:26 am    Post subject:

I really like the idea of tying some specs into religion instead of dragons and I think your suggestions are spot on.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:23 am    Post subject:

Wow, I didn't realize you couldn't roll evil chaotic and then follow an evil lawful deity if you want to - I thought matching alignment was good enough. Now I know why I have so few followers! Do we really need this one-off axis stuff for fighter classes? It makes no sense to me why we need that. I think we obviously need that level of rigor to be eligible for tattoos, but the low level ranks of religions should not be throwing up a big barrier to entry like that. I figured you would just follow your align/ethos and try to respect the wishes of that deity as best you can. Get tattoo later when you decide you're serious and want to be much more hardcore about it and ethos change then if need be (as tattoo is much more impressive than wild weapon). I would like to have berserkers able to continue to roll as chaotic (for wild weapon swag) and then spec into Davairus, and go cracking some skulls in my name irrespective of their chaotic ethos. They are doing it for me and it looks like a service from my POV. Maybe eventually they come around to lawful because it makes sense to tattoo them. Its character development. Who objects to this and why?
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Ergorion



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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:50 am    Post subject:

a chaotic dude worshipping a lawful deity would be like a Catholic using birth control.
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Olyn
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject:

Would you also be okay with a chaotic evil character worshipping a chaotic good deity like Aberdour? If not, we're saying ethos is far less important in our game than good/evil alignment. It wasn't that long ago that ethos meant nothing in AR except for the ability to use wild weapons and whether or not you were breaking the rules by attacking someone in Seringale. I'd hate to see ethos reduced to that again.

I'm failing to see why 3 random gods are the focus of our berserker spec in the first place.
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Nycticora
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:24 pm    Post subject:

chaotics following lawful deities is retarded, if people are not picking lawful because of wild weapon swing then we need to go back to the drawing board with wild weapon swing and orderly items because it is unbalanced

but that's not the case, because the real reason people don't roll lawfuls is because they get slain/outcast/denied/called trash for attacking people in cities

or because they can't, due to race/class restrictions

maybe we should look at the past to find out why you feel there should be berserkers who follow lawful deities? Did we have true neutral or even lawful berserkers back in the day? I think we did, if I remember right the character Ranix was a true neutral stone zerk.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject:

I will make the berserker spec have nothing to do with religion other than in name. Lorewise the rest of us can recognize them as madmen. Will fix helps later. Apologies for the inconvenience.
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Nycticora
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:12 pm    Post subject:

I'm in favor of opening ethoses back to zerks later though, I don't think the religion tie was a bad idea. I like the Sarich berserker
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:19 pm    Post subject:

OK I wont be too hasty. I had thought we had neutral ethos ones actually
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Vevier
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:14 pm    Post subject:

I am also against the idea of even likewise tying zerker skills to lawful gods. I understand why with your lore you would want to have your own bersekers, but it's inconsistent.
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Nycticora
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:31 pm    Post subject:

It's OK for individual deities to have exceptions to rules, we have to be super careful which ones we allow though. The god Davairus paradoxically liking berserkers even though he's a lawful deity passes my sniff test.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:00 pm    Post subject:

http://abandonedrealms.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11210
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Vevier
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject:

I'm not saying there isn't a case for it, but when we have an established exception, it calls into question the promises we have made to the player base by having that rule in the first place. If WE

Why not just make it themed for aberdour and zylenier?
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject:

I think we're getting off on the wrong foot because I haven't wrote down the helpfiles. It was all thought out a long time ago but you're looking at it without seeing what I was drawing up behind the scenes. Here is the helpfile:

Code:

'DRAGON ANCESTRY'
Syntax: ancestry <specialization>
 
In contrary to the emphasis on finesse and style that warriors train for in a
methodical manner, the infamous berserkers draw much of their might from the
enhancement of strength and athleticism that develops from a lifestyle of
undertaking difficult battles without rote training.  Berserkers are also well
known for their fanatical belief in the gods puppeteering of their lives, which
ironically makes some of the gods take a keen interest in them and take notice
when they see their past selves in a mirror when they observe that berserker.
Sometimes those gods recognize and reward the accomplishments of these overly
zealous fighters with an even greater athleticism for their art of fighting.
 
Fury: The masters of fury are favored by the golden dragon, Sarich, for their
ability to control rage to direct it where it truly belongs - upon evildoers.
These berserkers will aggressive only on evil when raged, and although lack
the ability to use MANIA, they are able to exercise more control over their
rage with their RESTRAINT ability. 
 
Power: The masters of power are favored by the chaos dragon, Zafrin, because of
their utter hatred of magical items.  These berserkers have an extraordinarly
strong temper and the ability to DEVASTATE their opponents while in rage.
 
Destruction: The masters of destruction are favored by the blood god, Davairus,
because they are a reliable source of sizeable offerings of bone, skull and
brain tissue.  Though entirely unable to relax, these berserkers have developed
some ability to IGNORE PAIN completely as they leave a BLOOD BATH in
their wake.
 
Please note that undertaking a specialization will set an expectation for the
berserker to act in a way that pleases that god. This may lead to some
situations where the berserker is unable to avoid angering the gods into
punishing them as well..
 


As you can see it doesn't really have to be tied directly to a deity/religion but it would be nice if the game allowed that to be possible.
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Vevier
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 7:30 pm    Post subject:

From help Sarich:

Code:

Followers of Sarich display a deep regard for mercy, in stark contrast to the
ruthless assassination that was carried out on their monarch.  They value
life in all of its forms, believing that there is always goodness to be found
and saved, even within the most tormented of souls.


That really doesn't sound like the kind of God that encourages reasoning at an enemy, IMO.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:25 pm    Post subject:

There is no contradiction because the berserker is able to choose exactly when it is appropriate to rage. Just because you value mercy doesn't mean you provide endless and infinite second chances.
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Vevier
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:47 pm    Post subject:

I'm not arguing that. I'm saying it doesn't seem to fit well enough to base a whole spec on it. There is literally nothing about Sarich that makes me think zerker.
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