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Flyndance
Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Posts: 35
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Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 7:49 am Post subject: [2018 Q1] Warriors |
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As a Warrior fanatic, I am requesting for some quality of life improvements to the class. That being said, I understand the difficulty in adding flavour to such a basic class without risking similarities with Berserkers or Rangers.
One direction to steer these improvements towards could lie with the mastery of skills, similar to what had been suggested previously in another thread, since warriors are typically perceived as masters of melee combat with focus on balanced damage output and accuracy. For example, Warriors could be given additional bonuses when certain cluster of skills are mastered (as per what was suggested by Vertas).
Of course, the additional of the Overpower skill was probably the result of rewarding warriors who master certain skills to allow execution of said skills at a higher level. However, as pointed out by me previously, the Overpower skill does not seem to be working as intended due to the high failure rate in comparison with executing skills without overpower. No one ever uses overpower in actual PK or PvE at all. There is also the issue related to having no conceivable benefits from overpowering warcry and berserk.
Since this is the year for a shake-up, I would suggest that the mechanics of the Overpower skill could be worth having a second evaluation. Also, is there a plan for warrior class specializations? |
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divsky Emissary
Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1054 Location: Iowa City, IA
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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Warriors need an out of combat hp regen option. It's been suggested before, some people have asked for a bandage skill. When you play a warrior at 50 you start to realize how vital this is. Warriors are just made to soak up damage yet they have no way of recuperating that damage lost between skirmishes like so many other classes do.
Just an overview of other classes hp regen options:
Ranger: Herb, campfire
Berserker: Trophy
Paladin: Cure light, cure serious
Dark Knight: Abyssal bulwark kind of sidesteps this
Thief: Probably the one class other than warrior with no regen but I feel like this is the ONE class where this makes sense as thieves are meant to make quick attacks and sneak away into the shadows and aren't designed for sustained combat.
Monk: Acupuncture and tons of free healing in combat.
Shadow: Acupucture and ninjitsu healing
Bard: A soothing melody, twilight of faeries
Healer: Are you kidding me?
Shaman: See above.
Invoker: Healing would be broken and they use barrier/mana shield instead of hp anyways.
Illusionist: Slow
Necromancer: Vampiric touch
Druid: Cure light and some other shit I dunno
And then the warrior, a class designed for tanking and sustained front line combat, gets nothing. It doesn't even make sense from a class design perspective, why is the warrior the one class, other than thieves, left out of some sort of regen mechanic? It really affects them in PK, any other class is just able to out sustain them. |
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Olyn Immortal
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3252 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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I've some success with warriors over the years just using berserk as my heal. We have another thread saying overpowered berserk for so races isn't resulting in extra hit and dam. What if we replaced berserk on warriors with something else and left it to the zerkers. The replacement skill could be some type of mental focus that increased some combination of accuracy, parry, and hp regen.
With all of that said, I always thought move regen was the bigger problem for warriors, not hp. |
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divsky Emissary
Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1054 Location: Iowa City, IA
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Athleticism completely solved their movement problem. |
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Olyn Immortal
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3252 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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That looks like a good solution. I completely forgot we had that. |
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Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 12:18 am Post subject: |
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I think berserk should remain on warriors, it's a good skill.
The overpower calculations on berserk look wrong to me. I just did the math and I don't think overpower adds enough additional HP regen |
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Olyn Immortal
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3252 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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What other warrior skills can use overpower and don't feel more powerful? |
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Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
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Posted: Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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disarm might need some conveyance. Maybe if you disarm someone due to the successful bonus of Overpower it should give you a message
I can look into that, might need to change the save_spell function to return an int instead of a bool if it hasn't already been changed, similar to what we did for damage values |
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Olyn Immortal
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3252 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Silence from the players here has been noted. |
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beia
Joined: 18 Mar 2006 Posts: 920 Location: Texas
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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There are just not enough warriors around these days. I feel like people just play Rangers if they want to play a melee class. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10362 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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I took a look at overpower. It seems to me that the skill should still go through if you fail to overpower it. Mastering overpower eliminates this problem.
Flyndance, would you like this. |
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Olyn Immortal
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3252 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:01 am Post subject: |
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Perfect. |
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ottif
Joined: 08 Jan 2015 Posts: 310
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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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this is just really another non issue. no offense. im kinda over this perpetual class balancing act. it has been like a vortex of class changes, back and forth, that has just become mind numbing. I think it would bring more players to the game if you focused on things like more in depth and dynamic quests and quest lines, player organizations(cabals suck), city governments with player voting systems or something, NEW areas that don't require old ones be moved/changed, new raiding experiences that are more rewarding for groups (better/more items dropped). and other things got tired of typing. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10362 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Apologies, I'd forgotten our whole purpose for existence was to make sure that only you get what you want, and its lucky we're psychics since you can't be arsed to even say |
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divsky Emissary
Joined: 13 Mar 2004 Posts: 1054 Location: Iowa City, IA
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Berserk isn't really viable means of recovery. Even with lots of mana used it's like a 50 hp heal, max, with a very long cooldown that drains all your other resources. It can turn a really close fight maybe but that's it.
I've mastered berserk and overpower on a warrior before and an overpowered berserk was really disappointing. I think it was like an extra damroll or something, not really worth the effort I put into it.
I do think berserk could be reworked, if not totally rewritten. It's an underwhelming skill that's often not worth the cost associated with it, and it just feels clunky and poorly executed. It should have a flat mana cost, a reduced movement cost, and maybe increased hp regen during the duration. With overpower the initial healing could be increased significantly. |
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Olyn Immortal
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3252 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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I'm seeing a human warrior with around 500 mana getting 100 hp from berserk so your numbers are way off. A giant is going to have less mana, but get an increased boost from their con so they shouldn't be far off unless they're low on mana from repeated use. Dwarves have a nice combo of high con and sufficient mana pool, making them the best at this by far. It's no coincidence that they start with the skill mastered. We've added athleticism for warriors to better handle the mv drain and zerkers already have rage/mania perks tied to berserk.
I haven't heard any other complaints about berserk other than overpower doesn't feel "better" with it, and I've already increased overpower's effect on warcry and berserk for the Q1 patch due out in a month. |
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Stiehl26
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 701
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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Does berserk still take half of your total movement when you activate it? If so, 100 or so health for 1/2 of your ability to chase/run may be a consideration to be taken in (if not already done so). |
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Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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we could buff the hit/dam on berserk. That's a double edged sword because they'll be tempted to blow it |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10362 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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We should just make it stackable while we're at it.
5 berserks dwarf warrior, no mv remaining. DEATH TURRET |
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Vertas
Joined: 17 Jan 2004 Posts: 1172 Location: Ewa Beach, HI
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Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 4:29 am Post subject: |
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I like that idea actually |
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