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| Does this sound like a good idea? |
| Yes |
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75% |
[ 6 ] |
| No |
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25% |
[ 2 ] |
| I'd need to hear more about it, I still have questions. |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 8 |
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Sebryn
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 1185
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 Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:34 pm Post subject: Idea for Justices: use of the Jail |
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I've thought for a long time that the City Jail in Seringale should have a purpose, but until today I hadn't thought of what that might be. I was talking to Torkalen earlier and this idea sort of fleshed out a little, and I wanted to see what other people thought.
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| What does the skill do? Why? |
Basically it'd work like this:
For people who are caught while flagged during their first offense, you'll be shown some leniency of a sort. If it's your character's first flaggable offense ever, you'd get a sort of "break" and wouldn't have to suffer a death. The Justice in question would apprehend as normal, and after you reached 0 hp you'd be stunned (a la the old Warlord duels) and transferred to the City Jail in Seringale. This would be a 'no summon/no teleport/no recall/no hide/etc.' room with a LOCKABLE door (no pass door, no knock, etc.).
Once the Justice gets back to town, they (using their Justice-only jail cell key) unlock the door and walk in, lock the door behind them, etc. They then explain that since this was a first offense they'll show some leniency and only confiscate one item, and the criminal will have to physically give the item over to the Justice. Once that's over with, the Justice makes sure that the criminal realizes that future flags will result in death without question, and then they can release the criminal.
The biggest reason I can see for this change is the fact that new players are constantly whining/sending notes/quitting/deleting over getting flagged when they "don't know the laws." With in-game helpfiles and even being PROMPTED to read the laws, I don't know how else (other than spamming "yell READ HELP LAW") to get it across to them. This would give those newbies a 'second chance' so that they wouldn't get frustrated over something they might not have known about yet.
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| What problems could this skill cause? Why? |
Obviously there's potential for abuse here. If a Justice gets attacked/quits out/goes linkdead/has cabal attacked, etc., then it could be a bit frustrating for the criminal. This could be solved by making the 'sentence' (time criminal has to stay in the jail cell) have a time limit of, say, 12-15 ticks or so. After such a time, the door to the cell unlocks and they can leave of their own free will.
Also, you could make it more interesting by having the jail cell keys be created (like Justice Kite Shields) and decay after time, but be lootable - i.e. Justice Bob makes a cell key, thief blackjacks him and steals the key, then goes and frees his buddy that's locked up. Freeing a prisoner (if physically seen by a Justice, i.e. 'same room') could also be a fineable (or flaggable, depending on Imm/Imp opinions) offense.
I also realize that people would all be using this as a "ooh, I get a murder attempt for free" type of thing. Yeah, that'd probably happen - but the ones that are going to break the law are the ones that are going to break the law... period. Also, Lawfuls would still have this count as breaking the law against them (the law is still broken, you're still a criminal - just not punished as harshly).
| Quote: |
| What class gets this skill? Why? |
All Justice members, regardless of class.
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| What level does the player get the skill? Why? |
All Justice members, regardless of level.
So anyway, there it is. Tear it up, discuss it, ask questions, whatever. |
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Zireph
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2005 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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My vote was no. But it was because I hadnt looked at your post just yet. I think that a less lethal form for noobs is required. I mean, to get MANGLED by a guard that you cant even scratch pissed me off as a noob. I think it would be a very good exercise to execute for the first offense. Maybe even the second. But I do believe the oldies would abuse it.
Uhm...Also I dont like the jail concept when it comes to waiting/being paralized. I played fl for a bit and they send people to jail and make them wait in there for a certain number of ticks until they could leave. I dont agree with that at all, but this system I think I could support. If I was to go off my opinion for myself I would say no, dont do it. Because I know the rules/laws and would definately abuse this first time offense.
We would also need to let the justices view the inventory of the person while they were in the jail, because if I was about to be taken to jail, I would simply remove the priceless items that my char for sure wanted to keep, so they just sat in my inventory rather than being vis to the justice and thus able to be taken.
If I was a cop and some prick escaped from jail cuz a buddy rescued him I would put the buddy and him BACK in jail. I dont think jailbreaks would be legit.
Thats all I have for this. Overall good newbie friendly idea however. I like it. |
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theobserver
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| There will also be a goat called Bubba in the jail ceil. |
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Zireph
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 89
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:22 am Post subject: |
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Errr...
Why is it always a fucking goat?
Rofl |
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Louis
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Posts: 823
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:27 am Post subject: |
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i think
1) i like using the jail for SOMETHING, but not to cage people. we already have an imm skill to cage rule breakers and its not fun.
2) losing horrendously to a string of guards, special guards, ensnare, and gangbanging justices is pretty humiliating enough
3) if i were locked up in a cage for an in-game ic reason like getting flagged (as opposed to being locked up for being an ass and deserving it) i'd probably feel like disconnecting and grabbing my balls
4) giving a JUSTICE a key and putting it on their time to unlock and let a criminal out will just allow stupid justices to take their sweet time and flex their godly muscles. its bad enough waiting for the justice to give you your shit back without having to go "obey my laws" one too many times.
5) an old idea was to give people an option for paying fines that they didnt have enough money to pay by using the jail room and performing a chore. i thought that was a great idea because it gave you a choice. either way it will suck (to eat a flag for not being able to pay a fine or to dig in the jail), but you can choose which one is less hard to swallow.
6) to help newbies, the first and foremost thing we need to do is keep seringale law helpfiles updated (for example include stuff about not dueling outside of the arena) or at least yeah, yell them out and let everyone know. like you could yell helpful law pointers from time to time in town (like a justice version of the training sword). |
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Sebryn
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 1185
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| Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2005 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Louis wrote: |
| 1) i like using the jail for SOMETHING, but not to cage people. we already have an imm skill to cage rule breakers and its not fun. |
This doesn't leave them frozen for 15 minutes, and if necessary the 'freezing' part can be taken out.
| Louis wrote: |
| 2) losing horrendously to a string of guards, special guards, ensnare, and gangbanging justices is pretty humiliating enough |
Example:
You're new (playing your first character), just got power-ranked to 15 or so with a group (by sitting there mostly), then the guy you're following runs to town. He attacks someone, and you assist ("autopeace?" What's that?). All of a sudden, "You are WANTED!"
Before you know what's happening, a rank-50 special guard comes in and DISEMBOWELS you a couple of times and you're dead. It's not the humiliation factor that I'm concerned with; it's the "what the f%$# just happened to me" that the newbie's gonna be experiencing that worries me. Giving them this "one-time break" would allow the Justice(s) to explain the rules of law to the character so they'd have a fighting chance at not getting smashed again without prior knowledge of 'why.'
It's amazing how many times people simply say "what laws" when confronted with their crimes, and then they access the helpfile.
| Louis wrote: |
| 3) if i were locked up in a cage for an in-game ic reason like getting flagged (as opposed to being locked up for being an ass and deserving it) i'd probably feel like disconnecting and grabbing my balls |
They don't give the death penalty to most criminals guilty of murder (accidental or otherwise) on their first offense; a stiff prison term (usually resulting in early parole) is more likely to be the verdict, unless the criminal is a repeat-offender. And what you choose to do when you disconnect is NONE of my business.
| Louis wrote: |
| 4) giving a JUSTICE a key and putting it on their time to unlock and let a criminal out will just allow stupid justices to take their sweet time and flex their godly muscles. its bad enough waiting for the justice to give you your shit back without having to go "obey my laws" one too many times. |
Ahem...
| Sebryn wrote: |
| This could be solved by making the 'sentence' (time criminal has to stay in the jail cell) have a time limit of, say, 12-15 ticks or so. After such a time, the door to the cell unlocks and they can leave of their own free will. |
In that instance, they just don't get the benefit of learning why they were imprisoned in the first place. Or they could look around and have "Read 'help law' to find out why you're here" or something in the room description.
| Louis wrote: |
| 5) an old idea was to give people an option for paying fines that they didnt have enough money to pay by using the jail room and performing a chore. i thought that was a great idea because it gave you a choice. either way it will suck (to eat a flag for not being able to pay a fine or to dig in the jail), but you can choose which one is less hard to swallow. |
That's fine too, but the main focus of my suggestion was to make the FLAG "less hard to swallow" for new characters and mistaken attacks (grouped w/o autopeace, etc.). As I already said, it would obviously be abused by people using their "get out of jail free card" (pun intended) free first attack, but the ones that are going to be bloodthirsty killers are going to attack anyway, regardless of how many times they get wanted.
| Louis wrote: |
| 6) to help newbies, the first and foremost thing we need to do is keep seringale law helpfiles updated (for example include stuff about not dueling outside of the arena) or at least yeah, yell them out and let everyone know. like you could yell helpful law pointers from time to time in town (like a justice version of the training sword). |
I agree with keeping law helpfiles updated, but I don't think that you're going to find Justices that are willing to sit in town and spam law training. You don't see cops sitting at intersections directing traffic while yelling "Be sure to fasten your seatbelt!! Don't jaywalk!! Shoplifting is a crime!!" It's understood that such things are common knowledge, but with a lot of newer players never having dealt with a mud before, they don't know that laws exist, or more specifically, what they are.
Maybe the problem could be solved by FORCING the players to read the law helpfiles somewhere throughout their newbie process, but there's a helluva lot more that would be following the laws if we were making a list of "what newbies need to know." I was just trying to take some of the sting out of getting killed while unaware of what you'd done, then deleting. Seen too many newbies finish their AR career that way in the last few months. |
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