Retaining "new players"

[Davairus]

I'm looking for some thoughts on how we can give newbies the breathing space they need to get half-competent at the game. Basically I want to improve this 20-on, as you can all obviously see. When I left we had a steady 30 on (max 40) and I came back and seems like it dropped like a rock, but its frozen again now I'm back. We might be down lower than usual because its summer. But anyway, I want to actually do things to build it up, and while I believe in the class changes bringing back old players who got bored, I think we should do what we can to capture new players as well. Thanks for the vote clicks by the way, they're bringing new people in daily. The problem is now keeping them here.

Well we dont have the time (and I think in my case the energy) to code in brand new adventurer classes, and other intensive bullshit like that, and I dont want to have the game all noobified for the rest of us, turnin the game into an easy mud in the process. Things like pk limit are the sort of thing I dont like being in the game protecting vets from vets. But, at the same time, we've got to do something to get our newbie retention rate UP and the fastest thing to turn a newbie off is an ass beating and full loot after his clock gets cleaned by a much more skilled vet player.

So heres what I'm proposing, and its simple..

Basically you get a NEW flag when you answer "are you new to the realms?", and everyone else can see the flag. It lasts for ONE single month, of real time. During that period, you people get to follow a game rule which says, "don't slaughter and full loot the eq/gold of people with the NEW flag, or you'll get swiftly quickly kicked off the server". Or something to that affect. Here's a rough draft..

[Kablamo]

Well today you proved i was one of those assholes:lol:, but this flag thing sounds good. I think a month might be a little long, it took me 2-3 weeks to find where all the shops were, and teh basic places to hunt, but might cause i had some ooc help.

I think you should put the "Are you new to this mud or to muds" before you can pick your race class. If you pick yes it should give you some tips on what Race/class's you should play, human neutrals, not many people will attack you later, and you have no vuln with decent stats. I think a human ninja neutral would be a good one, detect invis, invis, hide, vanish and dirt.

Maybe give those with the flag a book or somthing telling them where to hunt and find basic eq, thats about all i can think of for now.

[Phostan]

Idea, if a (NEW) player gains over 10 pks, their (NEW) flag should disappear, because they're actively pk'ing, and if they're doing a semi-decent job at it, they're less then a full blown newbie. Have a warning implying as much when they pick yes to being (NEW).

[Trillian]

Here are some thoughts..

What is to keep a vet from using this new flag to get to 50 in a month time?
I know that vets'll probably get bored by a month of newbing around, but who's to say that'll stop them from trying.

Are newbies still able to be involved in the pk-scheme?
Since an inherent part of AR is pking, dying, and re-equipping, how do you put forth that message and hope they don't get frustrated. I think an important part of retaining newbies will be to give them a sense of community so that even if they are frustrated, they have somewhere to vent and people to talk with.


My two thoughts at the moment..

[Kablamo]

I turned my comp back on to post what you said Trillan, but you beat me to it . I think they should not bea able to wear any rares, and have a stricter pk limit or none at all to prevent abusers.

I have some ideas's for the book, but i dont know how to do that "code" quote thingy. Like it should refer them to the Ar home page or newbie faq guide. Chapter 1 general tips, Chapter 2 tips for survival, always consider monster before you attack, scan around if your in a unkonow area, what skills/spells can make a monster hit you less. Chapter 3 Basic equipment, aquire all combat eq before leaving the arena, eq from goblins, the jagged sword dagger and sceptre, or just tell them to explore these certain areas to find this type of eqipment or weapon. Chapter 4 Where can you hunt for either alignemt, just some general direction to get them to explore and learn on there own. Chapter 5, refer them to the saves guide and all those other pk guides, along with a couple general tips to help them not get raped as much after the month or so.

Thats it for tonight.

[Nuonorp]

I really like the idea of a new flag, but giving them extra penalties like "no rares" does not seem to contribute anything. In regards to ranking to 50 in a month, perhaps there could be a 1 month/level 35+/n-PKs restriction, in that whichever of those happens first will poof the New flag. Also, perhaps their corpses could be treated like corpses for levels 1-14 in that they can't be looted, or just 1-3 items can be looted? Just thoughts for the fire.

[Soldier]

I think the flag is a good idea but make them unattackable until the type in the proper command. And put in invisable walls in high areas that lower levels shouldn't be like witch woods and no rares idea is good so their shitty but not too shitty.

[Trillian]

[Sebryn]

I think that the no-rare thing is good for a couple of reasons:

- makes them less of a target
- gets them used to fighting without them
- will put more emphasis on gambled equipment from the start

I'd say maybe any combination of the following elements to hopefully cut down on the number of times <NEW> players are PK'ed and/or looted:

- rare limit
- can't PK/be PK'ed until level 15-20 (whatever's deemed best)
- corpses can't be looted at all until rank 20 (or lower/higher)
- from rank 20-30, a "loot max" per death (i.e. - only 2-3 items, etc.)

Also, maybe there can be varying degrees of <NEW> status. People come to AR from other muds, possibly highly similar ones, but just don't know the maps and items, etc... but they know how to flee, run, and/or fight. Just throwing ideas out there.

[Matthais]

I forgot where i saw this idea but if your that worried about newbs getting pked, give them the option of ranking themselves as an npkc(non-playerkilling character); Can't be pked, can't pk, can't get rares. Though this may seem boring to the average player, I remember my first 50 only wanted to rank and explore. This would allow someone new to do this without some numbnut getting a cheese kill to pad their stats, which thanks to the reaper, is now available for all to show their combat numbers. Anyway, chances are after they got to around 30-35 they would know their way around, know places to rank and get basic equipment, and think that it might be fun to pk a bit.

[Sebryn]

That's the "adventurer" class that Dav was talking about NOT wanting to make.

[Davairus]

I am thinking the flag breaks off at level 36.

As for the situation comes up with a vet picking a new flag and then going pking. Well if they are caught pking beginners, then they'll get deleted like anyone else. if they're pking vets, well since its before 36, it isnt on their graveyard record, so its not like it matters. Same goes for anybody pking lowbies.

There's no real incentive for a vet to pick a novice flag, he's not going to be stuck below 36 for a month

[Kablamo]

So me or any vet could just go pking anyone but the (New) people and anyone who tryed to get revenge would get banned. Or i could rank to 35 and just hoard a bunch of rares and nobody could kill me or loot them from me?

[Davairus]

Well I can just do this. If a "new" flag player attacks somebody, and he doesn't have defensive pk adrenaline from being attacked, he'll lose his new flag. Right away. I can make that type of attack replace the current "PK" in the pk limit code, for that matter, so it dont have to be affecting "new" players only. This way pk limit only affects pks you started, as its more of an attack limit.

Addition to the draft of the rule:

[Amdorin]

Well, ....then again. ...There's Saegen and her obsession with the spider blade.

[bassball]

I think the new flag is good, but, I think it should not last any longer then three weeks(A month is a heck of a long time) People can attack the "NEW" chars but the corpse cannot be looted(they need to know this before hand so they dont get used to it) The flag wil last until they have killed five players(thats alot for a newbie pker(because they will probably stay away from pks completely)"NEW" players cannot loot from corpses either) the flag will last until they reach thier 20th rank(Thats plenty a high enough rank(for a newbie, it will take a long time to get that high))They should beable to have rares(Who are we to deprive them of the funnest part of AR (plus, most rares(that are worth while anyway)cannot be gotten until after thier 20th rank).

If you ask me, if I were a newbie, this idea would sound pretty good, but some of the ideas your thinking up dont sound very good.(I love telling myself I have better ideas than you guys )

If you think my ideas are complitly horrible, critisism is welcome, but if you do think that, Im going to call you a complete moron right now

[Trillian]

[Monkey]

I think the new player flag is a good idea in theory. However to me it just seems to be a Band-Aid over a problem that is draining the life slowly away from the MUD. A new player flag will indeed protect players for a month, from the asshole players - which seems to be more then half of the playerbase at this time - however is a month really enough? And won't this flag completely override the purpose of PK in this area?

I mean, I don't think a level 25 player with a loud mouth insulting everyone in sight should be able to get away with it just because he or she is knew. Nor do I think a level 15 player should be killed off just because he or she is of a certain alignment.

In my humble opinion I just don't think a new player flag will work. It will protect a wide range of people, some of which do not deserve the protection.


My next point is, as we all know there are different varieties of players who enter the game for the first time. Some of them are hard-core combatants, some of them like to just play for fun, some want to play for the RP, some just want to adventure and explore. A lot of these types of players aren't going to get combat down (especially considering how complex and in-depth combat is here) in a month. Some of them might not even get it in several months of play. It protects them for a month, at which point they won't have really done battle because of the new player flag - rendering them as helpless as they were at level 1. Coupled with the fact that they just spent a month earning new gear, and fighting to gain coin and levels for them to die on their 31st day of playing and lose all of that because some dirtbag wants to kill them. I don't see them staying around for very long.

Hey, while the decision is of course not up to me, I just don't see how a new player flag will work in the long run to keep players here, that would normally quit after being killed and looted a few times. In my personal opinion there is a simpler, much easier solution. Granted, in the beginning it may be difficult to get everyone working by these conditions, but in the long run, it would protect all the players who simply want to play and not have to worry about being slaughtered because they had three choices good/neutral/evil upon character creation.

My idea is there be a set of rules regarding PvP, stating simply that there must be a valid RP reason involved in killing another player. I'm sorry, but evil vs good is not an RP reason to kill someone pre-cabal. It's just an excuse for some player to get his rocks off. I can guarantee that any player who doesn't come here to just kill people and feel tough isn't going to kill another player because of his/her alignment unless associated with a group that is bound to do such things. Cabal politics, calling someone out, insulting someone, killing a friend of someone's are all to me great reasons for killing. However, good vs evil and so forth just give some annoying player the chance to show how cool he is.


Anywho, I've rambled enough. This is of course your game, but I'm willing to bet that a new player flag will only keep new players around for a month - until they start getting killed like crazy because they actually wanted to RP an alignment.

[Monkey]

And one more thing, from my own personal experience.

I personally do not play, I pop in every once in a while, maybe hunt for 20 minutes every few weeks, but I do not play in the sense. This is because in my opinion, what is the point of playing, working hard, and being fair, when anyone can pk you and take whatever they want from you without having earned it and call it RP? I'm willing to bet that's why 80% of the other newbies quit as well. There's no security after level 10, and while this game has a lot of good points, the PK is deffinetly enough to turn many players away that simply do not have the time or will to deal with dumbass players with no life and low real-life self asteem.

You can say that it makes the game a challenge. But it doesn't, the odds are against every new player. It's always going to be 1 new player to about 10 vets I'd say. Maybe an average of 4 or 5 of them in their pk range at peek times and 2 of them that one newbie_00 dead because he has a cool item, or they just want to show that they're better then someone.

[Davairus]

New "help PK" helpfile.