Purely hypothetical question

[divsky]

Hypothetically speaking, say there's this invoker. Lets say he's a human invoker. And this invoker is always getting into a fight with this human shaman. This shaman is loaded up on save vs mental and a decent amount of save vs afflictive, but can still do decimates and devastates through sanc. The hypothetical invoker therefore can never land a dispel magic on him, and even if he did, the hypothetical shaman would flee out and recast it before he even had a chance to cast hellstream anyways. So every fight is spent spamming afflictive spells on him. And every fight the shaman spams cure critical. And if this hypothetical invoker doesn't have mana shield up he'll get demonfired occasionally too. But every fight the invoker just ends up running out of mana against the always-sanced/protected cure-critical spamming shaman. And once out of mana the inokver has no choice but to run away.

What could this poor invoker do to possibly beat this shaman? Hypothetically speaking, of course.

[_Clifton_]

keep ranking, hit 50.. get save breaks.. hope for the best and try to outlast.

[Phostan]

Load up on damroll and outdamage him. Consider this, when fighting mage vs. mage/cleric, neither usually uses weapon ward. So
Invoker has sword and dagger and mace, and shaman has mace/staff/whip/flail, and usually uses mace. So grab a sword and lay down the hurt.
Get mana eq if you run out all the time. Diamond brooches are like 30 mana or so. It's pretty easy to get.

And yeah, saves break is the easiest way probably, if you have the money to gamble for some.

Or you can get a few levels on him, level advantage helps.

[Rolfy!]

Like Astinor said, stack up on hit/dam and fight like a warrior with hellstream/other afflictives and fire/ice shield. I wouldn't even bother with mana shield, just wear some mal/mental saves (more mal). If he's demonfiring you or some shit, he's just burning his mana, as shaman afflictives are totally inefficient mana-wise. Try to maintain weapon advantage to screw his parry (already crappy if he's using frenzy on you).

[marsd]

Yeah you give this strategy and stuff, but if you were on Rolf you would've done demonfire anyway.

[Kalist19]

Load up invoker with warrior eq = the grimp effect.

[Davairus]

If you go damroll vs shaman dont be surprised when you come back with your ass sore from a dysentery that you couldn't regen out of.

[Rolfy!]

Demonfire/harm has its uses, like when you're trying to finish someone off or when you're playing defense and your opponent isn't bothering to regenerate health/mana.

[Lorne]

Actually Kalist, Grunky was the first invoker that did the All-damage-warrior tactic. He used mainly dragonblood/wing gambled eq, and he looked crazy.

He almost outdamaged a rared-out Taurth with effiggy and elite special guard.

[Kalist19]

Sweet, Grunky's gambled eq is pawesome. I wasn't playing when you were using Taurth so I was out of the loop on that one.

[Gygh]

1. Get a buddy to kill and full loot him. Then he's yours for the taking until he gets saves again.

2. Train your spells.

3. Get to a higher rank than him so that you can dispel easier.

[marsd]

So after all these posts still nothing really productive:

1. Warrior eq means full dispel every time he tries
2. Save vs . means co word;run hide sleep and the battle never ever ends.
3. Buddy to kill full loot - Your buddy might be killed instead.
4. Get higher than him - You can't get higher than 50 anyway
5. Train your spells - He can train them too.

[Phostan]

Well, since marsd is a n00b cannon, (Face it, you are) Let me point out the pointlessness in his post.

[marsd]

Wow, thanks for helping me alleviate my boredom. You just helped me confirm all the 5 points that were brought up.

In all cases point 1. I'm sure we all know that AR was created such a way that you can't have godlike dam with insane saves, which means if you have 50/50, you'd likely have -30 saves on average if you're really suped to the skin cell, which at 50 is almost worthless because it's still a half full dispel every time.

Then on to point 2, uh. Thanks for repeating.

Then point 3, and in the end you both might just die cus your suped-to-skin-cell OOC buddy died to him, and he became even more suped.

Onwards and upwards point 4: They both are gonna have to get to 50 anyway, and anything before just leads on to the path to 50... so..??

And lastly point 5... How about he master other spells too other than demonfire and harmspell like eh... dispel magic, blind, curse, dysentry, deteriorate?

And finally I'm not here to offer critique, in fact I was also wanting to know how a shaman can be beat. I never did give anything on beating shamans actually, just thought those points brought up were moot against any well-played shaman with a player of half a semi-decent brain.

And that about save breaks, I didn't mention it because I didn't think it was moot. The rest were kinda.. filler posts to fill up the space in between.

[Davairus]

It seems pretty obvious who is going to win when one of the guys has cure spells, better defences, mals, and almost as good aff. If you think its bad vs shamans though wait until you try fighting a decent ninja.

[Rolfy!]

Yeah, invokers are normally subpar when it comes to 1on1 combat. But they make up for it by being pwnage

1. in group fights (even after dying, they are pretty much just as useful)
2. in circumstances where they can exploit vulns
3. by taking people by surprise or by traps (try luring a shaman into an enclosed area)

[Slade]

[Davairus]

blind dust (wear mals),
caltraps (fly at all times or pay for it via dirt flee lags),
grapple (prot shield at all times or be lagged to death),
weapon skills (weapon ward at all times, or eat those beef skills - some lag),
perfect off-hand enhanced damage with flails,
endure for huge svs- add more damroll
decent defences => won't do much after dispelling anyway, he will just flee for another purple
try an ice/fire shield? ninja wears icicles/fieries and does even more dam

Shrug, I'd rather fight the shaman, he's not as lethal. This is for invoker only btw.

If you want to beat a shaman, my easiest experiences have been with illusionists and necromancers, basically just dispelling them so they die in 1 to 2 rounds after tanking charmies and wolfing down some acid blasts/colour sprays (ills do less spell damage but more mob damage).

[Gygh]

[marsd]

rofl. You are right sure. So what if the shaman decide to take the path of no dispels, and go crazy maling your ass off? Mana shield isn't gonna block those mals for you man.