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_Clifton_
Emissary
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1405
Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.
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 Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:58 pm Post subject: Surge Battle -- Discussion Excerpts |
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First: Don't you think you should have quit out if you were on the phone in a serious conversation regarding your grandpa's health?
Second: It looks like you picked this fight, so no complaining about the odds
Third: Why was Iriqeous allowed to/able to heal you during the first assault on the Legions at Shire? Isn't that out of range assistance?
Fourth: hahaha use the outfit command marsd!!! No reason to run around with just a sword =) |
| Quote: |
To add to what Hilemal said. I actually asked about this to a certain Imm and he said "You don't think he's just going to let him die do you?" That's BS.
Then, Groq hasn't really added any clarification to the new note from Dav with gangin I don't think. So...Knights are healing out-of-range, hoarding items (purples and such, ex. Mongtufa when fighting Amirlith) out of range, and grouping with non caballed (Haelraltar and Drigoch for example) even when the note says it "does not include groupmates [who aren't cabaled]". And all that has happened to me as a non Anathema. I know the note says Knights can gang caballed evil, but everyone in their right mind knows that doesn't extend to out of range assistance, cuz if that's the case what's the point of a PK range? I tried to address this and another Imm basically said "Stop whining" and even threatened to be slain for it. I know the Imms are fair and all, but they can be assholes when they wanna be.
So it's BS, but no one seems to have a problem with it, ..we'll just have to work around it. |
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Hmmm, well, I'd understand what the IMM said if the case was you attacked his groupmate... but if they attack you, that's a whole different story. Course, I don't know all the facts here, just what has been posted.
Oh yeah, and thanks for the great post Marsd! It really was a great (and amusing) read. Hahaha I thought for sure you were going to die more times then you did |
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Lol yeah from what I was seeing in the later part of the fight it was more of lamb to slaughter, rather than only a 3v1. Could have handled the Clawron/Rigwarl/Vrakkus group though, not the 5 or 6 of them.
And I'm too poor for outfit.. mmmmm... |
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1) Iriqeous was not going to let Revaqins die to a 3 on 1 - that goes against the virtues of Knights and pretty much 'help good'.
"Neutral Good:
Those of this path are strong followers of the Light, above all else.
The weak must be defended, and lawful neutrals act to ensure that right
triumphs over wrong"
This would be sweet battlegrounds thread. |
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Yeah, but remember when I attacked Haelraltar in the circus with Iriqeous and Mongtufa around? He ran off and I chased to where he met up with Iriqeous in another room and the message "Haelraltar has joined Iriqeous' group" or whatever and I attacked anyway.
So, then Iriq had the right to heal technically, but even after fleeing Iriqeous led him into the room (group leader because mong was following as well checking my health) I was in (one room over) and I was attacked again, and Iriqeous was healing again.
So basically I failed what I was trying to do (kill haelraltar) and Ronus was like "I should kill you for failing" blah legion stuff, thats fine in rp sense. But naturally I was pissed off because I couldn't say anything like "Well I couldn't do it with Iriqeous helping.." because it got shrugged off with that "he's not just going to let him die thing".
Now for the "bring it to forums" I think it would make a good discussion too in theory. But I also see it turning into a stupid flamebait thread. All the "stop complaining and blah" stuff would escalate from random threadposters that have nothing to do with the situation, and the purpose behind the thread would be lost. So I'd rather leave it here as people that have posted here have at least been competent about what's going on. But feel free to do it if you want to, it's just that I'm not going to. |
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Well, I was 4/5ths naked, at half hp with very little mana left, as well as playing Dav's Dangerous Daggers game when you came in to attack, so I don't think that an appeal to fairness (I'm not sure exactly what principle you're invoking with regard to the troubles you've noted, so I'm going to bracket it all under "fairness") is legitimate. Iriqeous didn't just have the right to help me, he was duty bound.
As far as your other concerns go, I think they're valid. Knights and the goods in general have been using pretty much every tactic available to them to beat back the rising tide of Legion (and affiliated evils). The reason evils haven't dominated in a long long time is because the good vs. evil logic (and all the moral evaluations that are bound up with it) that our society operates by is a basic structural aspect of the game. The only way for this structuring force to be countervailed is by having an inordinate number of very good players all suddenly deciding to play evils, while not as many decide to play goods. In other words, such a powerful RP framework (as noted by Jraekior and Clifton in their posts in this thread, where goods are bound to help one another out, and will do pretty much whatever it takes to bring down evil, since Honor is a Warlord attribute primarily, and doesn't enter into goody discourse as a dominant feature, though it's still present in an attenuated form) is usually only compensated for by a gameplay or PK force, such as simply overwhelming goods with either numbers or through skill.
Simply put, the game is structured so as to give goods a permanent overall advantage over evils, though obviously goods won't always dominate at all times. I could be wrong, but to make the game structurally (i.e., potentially) egalitarian as far as possession of power goes would destroy the good vs. evil logic, and instead you'd have something like Counter-Strike, where CTs fight Ts but there's no obvious "good guy" ideology behind CTs' actions. In other words, RP would be seriously hindered. Perhaps this would make the game better? That could be up for discussion. I'm totally improvising here. |
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"Simply put, the game is structured so as to give goods a permanent overall advantage over evils"
Out of curiosity, how'd you arrive at that conclusion? The implementors would most likely greatly disagree with you there, as they strive to keep the game balanced for everyone. |
| Quote: |
| Goods have 1/3 less PK threats than evils. |
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formalism
Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 83
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:36 am Post subject: |
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I posted the following at invokation.net in response to Vhrael's question:
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"Simply put, the game is structured so as to give goods a permanent overall advantage over evils"
Out of curiosity, how'd you arrive at that conclusion? The implementors would most likely greatly disagree with you there, as they strive to keep the game balanced for everyone. |
and figured I'd transpose it to this forum with only a minor edit.
---
Well, the game seems to be primarily balanced as far as classes and races go (though I might not even go that far, since I don't believe fire giants deserve their 400 exp penalty even a little bit, and clerics should probably have a higher exp penalty than 0), but alignment and alignment-content (what alignments demand of us) is a different question.
Think about who tends to play evils, or better yet the kind of qualities necessary to answer in the affirmative the following hypothetical question: "Should I play an evil?" Usually it's skilled players who inhabit the evil personas, ones who can survive independently of outside assistance and still attain some measure of success, as well as be strong enough to lead other evils, who are notoriously difficult to manage and organize, since evils don't like things that interfere with their evil self-interests. True, evils can and are often played by newbies, since you can't get good at being evil unless you actually practice being evil. But my main point stands, evils are typically played by more-or-less skilled players. And it's this skill that is necessary to offset the disadvantages that evils typically have: the lack of trust in other people. Evils can backstab one another; they are unable to decide beforehand whether or not someone can be trusted merely on the basis of their alignment, like goods can.
Goods have such an advantage, however. They know they can usually rely on others for help, and this is a structural part of the game, since it's an essential RP element. Also, goods will typically justify acting in numbers since what matters is that evil is destroyed, not that one was "fair" to evils. Evils can also act in numbers as well, if it's in their self-interest, but Legionnaire ideology is far more stringent, since one should be able to display one's personal magnanimous puissance to one's enemies, without relying too much on outside assistance, if one is to truly have the respect necessary to dominate others. You can't show weakness by being dependent on others. Knights care about respect too, but not in this fashion, and they don't care if people fear them, so long as the world is safe. Without this crucial difference between evil and good, you'd have no real roleplay atmosphere.
And it's this difference that structures the game towards goods. Like I said, even though the game is "structured so as to give goods a permanent overall advantage," PK or gameplay elements also enter in to help offset such an advantage, which I noted in my earlier post. Skilled players play evils, but the evils need quite a bit of skill (and/or perhaps more numbers) in order to offset the structured gameplay orientation toward the good. That's the theoretical reasoning behind my claim, anyways. |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:05 am Post subject: |
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"Out of range assistance" is my least favorite rule.
Basic idea is as follows..
1) If the person you're helping is actively fighting someone who IS in your PK, your help IS legal.
2) If the person you're helping is actively fighting someone who ISN'T in your pk range, your help ISN'T illegal.
But then there's a separate limited set of (in my opinion, illogical) rules for recourse. e.g. if you're grouped with them and ranking, the rule permits helping groupmate to live, but not to help them hunt the sob down and annihilate him so you can get back to ranking safely ... its a pain in the ass to deal with those fringe cases, and that's the type people nitpick after they're dead.
Perfect example would be Iriqeous helping Haelraltar with some heals in the circus. They said something like, "oh boohoo Iriqeous was leading him around to finish me off after I fled because of the healing I dont have a problem with" based on this output:
| Code: |
Iriqeous walks in.
Haelraltar walks in. |
See how that looks like Iriqeous is leading? It fooled the Legion imm. But you know what.. that couldnt be more wrong. Its the guy on the BOTTOM of the list that's doing the leading. The leader isn't going to be the most recent line on your mud client, sitting on the top like that. That's the kind of thing I have to deal with, because of the out-of-range assistance rule.
Based on that incident, I actually did pull Iriqeous aside. But only to tell him that his opponents were trying to nitpick him to death due to his successes. Its not the first player we've had to tell that either. That's the kinda thing that makes me wanna put everyone in level 50 pk at 45+ so I dont have to deal with it ever again. |
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sissuris
Joined: 25 Jan 2004
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 4:47 am Post subject: |
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I dont know how to quote, im stupid, so bare with me
first one
Iriqeous closes his eyes momentarily and nods at you.
You feel a lot better!
Vrakkus has a few scratches.
now this is traight out of marsd log, right in the beginning. I see Iriqeous healing Revaqin, completely out of range. This is a fight that REvaqin initiated. They were obviously ranking, and not buggin the knights. How is that not out of range assistance. I see nothing but this kind of bullshit given to these people. And inreply to his Oh only really skilled people play evils. Than you have people like clifton who are skilled. And make goods to exploit the whole I have 50 healers behind me healing my ass, so im invincable. |
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_Clifton_
Emissary
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1405
Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:46 am Post subject: |
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| What should Iriqeous do in that situation? I don't mean to sound defensive (even though it will), but what should he do? It's not his fault that the Legion aren't in his range, he can't rank anymore. Should he let them gank Revaqin 3 on 1 style? Doesn't seem Knightly. Anyone have thoughts on what should be done in that situation that's both good RP-Wise and Rules-Wise? |
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Hilemal
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: |
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Okay, to since Dav brought up the hating on Iriqeous in his discussion, just want to be clear, my opinion has nothing to do with that (I wasn't even involved, just read the log and commented there previously). As I've told Clif before, I thoroughly enjoy all of his characters and have a lot of respect for him as a player. He brings a lot of spice to AR and contributes a lot to the community as a whole. Besides, without Clif, who would we turn to to find and exploit ever bug/trick until the class gets gimped???  Oh yeah, and props to you Clif for maintaining a mature and cool head on discussion this both here and at the log site. Hopefully everyone else involved can do the same
That being said, I think the actions if Iriqeous in this situation were blatantly against the rules. He out of range assisted in a pk attempt by Revaqin on the evils/legions. This was not a mistake or an attempt to protect his group from an assault. It was a planned attack with specific intentions of allowing having his groupmate attack those he cannot while he heals him. This is copied from the other forum post by Dav under "rules updated"
| Quote: |
| * don't interfere with other people's pk ranges (ASSISTANCE) |
I cannot see how the actions of Iriqeous were not an interference with other people's pk ranges.
Now, it makes perfect sense for Iriqeous to interefere as a RP reason, but rules take precedence over RP. It doesn't matter how well you RP something, a rule is a rule. Otherwise you could have 50 healers running around assisting lowbie pk by healing them (although I believe something was hard-coded in to prevent this, which is only more support for the importance of not interfering with others' pk ranges). Unfortunately, this may mean you can't act Knightly in this situation, or rather, you have to RP around the rules. Consider the attack a chance for Revaqin to show his strength and single handedly dispatch the evils, showing them the strength of the light (or something like that).
Finally, just to address a couple of your points in particular Clif:
1) Iriqeous should obey the rules of the game and RP around them
2) Yes, it's his fault, and Revaqin's, about the pk range. They choose the race/class combo and that PK range comes with the territory
3) If they were ganking Revaqin 3 on 1 while you guys were grouped together and chilling, then I think he should defend him to a certain point. Once the fight is disengaged, he should not assist with retaliation. If they were defending themselves 3 on 1 against Revaqin, well, it's Revaqin's fault for attacking them. Iriqeous should not interfere
Umm.. that's all I got. Thanks for copying this to the forum Clif |
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Burzuk
Implementor
Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 529
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| _Clifton_ wrote: |
| What should Iriqeous do in that situation? |
Attack the Legion cabal and capture their cabal item. If the goal of the attack was to disrupt the Legionnaires from leveling, then invading their cabal is the proper way to do it, and the Legionnaires in that case at least get to use their henchmen to fight back against the out-of-PK invaders.
On the other hand, if the goal of the attack was to kill the Legionnaires, then the only ones who have any business being involved in the killing are those within the Legionnaires' PK ranges. The only characters who have any business attacking (or helping to attack) anyone outside of their own PK range are Justices during apprehensions.* We have never asked Legions to enforce out-of-range contracts, Warlords to honor out-of-range deathmarks, or Knights to purify out-of-range anathemas, and this goes doubly so for characters who haven't even been marked by any cabal flags to begin with. Remember, membership in a competing cabal is not a cabal flag in an of itself.
* Henchmen are also out-of-PK, but they're strictly defensive and are not used for attacking.
| _Clifton_ wrote: |
| Should he let them gank Revaqin 3 on 1 style? Doesn't seem Knightly. |
Regardless of the odds, one can't be "ganked" as the aggressor. Don't like the odds, don't attack. QED.
By the way, since we've been keeping tracking aggression via adrenaline AND we've recently started to (invisibly) keep live track of who's attacked whom as well, a hardcoded solution to out-of-range spellcasting interference is on the horizon. Of course we still can't hardcode all forms of out-of-range interference*, but restricting spellcasting is clearly doable (as well as other miscellaneous skills like bard songs, herb, lay on hands, etc).
When the hardcoded measures eventually go in, the PK-range rules will likely still remain unchanged; the additional hardcoding will just provide an additional layer of protection on top of them.
* For example, we'll be able to prevent a groupmate from casting sanc on an out-of-range attacker via hardcoding, but it's not feasible for us to attempt to prevent spelling the attacker up beforehand or giving him purples during a battle for him to quaff. There's no satisfactory way to completely deal with the out-of-range interference problem via hardcoding -- attempting to do so will only cause more problems. But we can help our rule enforcement situation immensely by adding a few well-defined hardcoded restrictions. |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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I think my shit doesn't stink.
| Sissuris wrote: |
I dont know how to quote, im stupid, so bare with me
first one
Iriqeous closes his eyes momentarily and nods at you.
You feel a lot better!
Vrakkus has a few scratches.
now this is traight out of marsd log, right in the beginning. I see Iriqeous healing Revaqin, completely out of range. This is a fight that REvaqin initiated. They were obviously ranking, and not buggin the knights. How is that not out of range assistance. I see nothing but this kind of bullshit given to these people. |
After all is said and done I didn't see anyone quitting out on Revaqin because he recieved a single heal out of range. Matter of fact all I saw is Revaqin do recently is get killed three times by a SIX-man Canadian gank squad, which was also posted on your lovely logboard. Lets slay him for out of range assistance for good measure, too, eh? That's the right thing to do now is it, eh?
1) I'm not going to pay any attention to what you've posted on the logboard because anyone can make something up over that, including spoofing their account name to make it look like they posted their own self-incriminating evidence. And with the way you Canadians gun for someone with the rulebook, and your own notorious past record for cheating and OOC shenanigans, I wouldn't put it past anyone who posts there to do that, eh?
2) All that matters to Immortals is what we've seen in game, where the integrity of the material isn't questionable. I didn't see it occuring in game, and apparently neither did any other Imm (and there are at least 10 who can, eh?). End of discussion. Eh?
3) Eh? Did anybody post any complaint about it in game at all? No. Lets exhume it up for a forum thread though, eh? Apparently three days later when I call some of you Canadians out for nitpicking, you've got to post your "factual evidence" you never reported before, because it suddenly became relevant when I've accused you of crying wolf. So you are saying you let cheating go unreported too now then, eh? You don't report cheating, but you log it and show your OOC logboard, go gangbang them with your OOC ex-Brandon school buddies, and then say how clearly the Immortals are out to get you by not doing anything.
Say, that Remmenon eh, wasn't he from Canada too?
4) Its been impossible to heal someone who's out of YOUR pk range and aggressive since Combat Module B. Extending it to someone who is IN pk range attacking someone out of it is also covered, but it has limitations, for example:
* the attacks are in home cabals, where there's no question its necessary
* the guy you're healing has attacked someone who WAS in pk recently. That implies there are groups with a complicated mixture of pk ranges, not just a simple comparison.
* there might just be unresolved bugs because its not stressed as much
I'll be adding more and more code to trap you with, and I'm pretty sure I'll be able to eventually eradicate out of range assistance like I eradicated multi. It'll be interesting to see who's left from Canada when the dust settles.
5) Eh?
6) Revaqin is level 50, and if you were too, you wouldn't be making any complaint because they'd both be in your PK range. Its one thing when you're fighting someone getting sanced by a Canadian healer who's 20 levels higher. But when you're only protected from the other Canadian because he's on the fringe of your PK range, its a difficult situation. The intuitive thing to do is to assume you can help people who are in your PK range, that's why I said, might as well just put everyone in everyone else's PK at 45+, to get rid of most of these problems.
7) I've even slayed them recently for doing things together they shouldn't have been doing before, both of them, so your accusations of favoritism disgust me. Eh? EH?
"Team Canada" cries wolf an awful lot. Here's another example from the other day, which I know will hit closer to home. Lugaron and Sousuke are fighting with Revaqin and Haelraltar.. suddenly, wahhh, Sousuke complains he's being non-anathema gangbanged by two Knights. Apparently, Lugaron fled the battle to go hide, leaving Sousuke to fend for himself, and so the technicalities come out. You see, nearly every time I investigate things the Canadians report, they fall apart under scrutiny for one reason or another. Does anybody else think that constitutes a 2 on 1 non-anathema gangbang, other than Canadians?
Meanwhile, you continue to serve up a crock of shit like, gnome invokers that suddenly need to "explore Valour" with Knights in PK range, while anathema, and with the other Canadians conveniently online for backup when the Knights attack. How would you like to be nitpicked? I guarantee you, with no question of any doubt, if the Knights cared to nitpick your guys conduct, they'd have you outcasts/denied/all types of punishment to suit your all sorts of bullshit. I've dealt with enough of it with my own mortals to know that. But lets not complain about what we've gotten away with, because the guys in charge are mature enough to distinguish serious misconduct from playground bickering. Lets complain about the Immortals! That makes a great deal of fucking sense doesnt it? How about we trade places and see how well you'll do? I'll sit in an igloo smoking marijuana and drinking Budweiser while I level with my five lifetime friends, and you can try to stop us all from doing something stupid while we bog you down with complaints that just don't hold water.
Or maybe you can wait until you actually have a case before you complain about other players. Then leave it to the Imms to make a judgement and accept what we decide to do. Its what everybody else on this mud does.
Eh?
Last edited by Davairus on Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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jaran
Immortal
  
Joined: 07 Feb 2004
Posts: 493
Location: Northern Ireland
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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I'd like to sing you all a little song..
Sheila: Times have changed
Our kids are getting worse
They won't obey their parents
They just want to fart and curse!
Sharon: Should we blame the government?
Liane: Or blame society?
Dads: Or should we blame the images on TV?
Sheila: No, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame Canada
Sheila: With all their beady little eyes
And flapping heads so full of lies
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Sheila: We need to form a full assault
Everyone: It's Canada's fault!
Sharon: Don't blame me
For my son Stan
He saw the damn cartoon
And now he's off to join the Klan!
Liane: And my boy Eric once
Had my picture on his shelf
But now when I see him he tells me to fuck myself!
Sheila: Well, blame Canada
Everyone: Blame Canada
Sheila: It seems that everything's gone wrong
Since Canada came along
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Copy Guy: They're not even a real country anyway
Ms. McCormick: My son could've been a doctor or a lawyer rich and true,
Instead he burned up like a piggy on the barbecue
Everyone: Should we blame the matches?
Should we blame the fire?
Or the doctors who allowed him to expire?
Sheila: fuck no!
Everyone: Blame Canada
Blame Canada
Sheila: With all their hockey hullabaloo
Liane: And that bitch Anne Murray too
Everyone: Blame Canada
Shame on Canada
For...
The smut we must stop
The trash we must bash
The Laughter and fun
Must all be undone
Before someone thinks of blaming uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuus!!!! |
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Monkey
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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I think the likelyhood of new canadian players creating new characters for the first time here in AR after reading this string is slim to none.
Granted, there's only like 9 people who live there, you've still pretty much alienated an entire country.
Don't get me wrong I think you're right Dav, but that still doesn't help with recruiting canadian newbies. |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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Actually you should substitute "Canadian" for "Brandon, Manitoba" in that post. I over-generalised a little too much there. Its the Brandon crew that are doing the complaining here, which is pretty ironic considering their record.
As for Canadian newbies, well, I think we'll have no problem getting those, certainly a bad reputation has never bothered them. It wouldnt hurt to focus on grow ingour playerbases in other countries first though, because they already are quite well represented here (even Resatimm is Canadian). US, australia and new zealand, thats what I'd like more of at the moment. These groups balance each other out, and I wouldnt think it a good thing if one got too big and gained massive momentum. |
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Monkey
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 39
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Well said. |
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Hoarding Healer
Joined: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 50
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Don't......dis......me.....in......my....igloo.......eh? |
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Phostan
Immortal
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 332
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Here's another example from the other day, which I know will hit closer to home. Lugaron and Sousuke are fighting with Revaqin and Haelraltar.. suddenly, wahhh, Sousuke complains he's being non-anathema gangbanged by two Knights. Apparently, Lugaron fled the battle to go hide, leaving Sousuke to fend for himself, and so the technicalities come out. |
Actually, Lugaron killed Revaqin already, and they just wanted to continue leveling, but Haelraltar decided to try to finish me. And Revaqin was unghosted and decided to get in on it. They instigated it, god forbid they can't suck it up enough to work it out 1 on 1. And then you got mad at me because you thought Lugaron was helping me by leading, yet in fact he made sure not to. And hey, when Revaqin quit, guess who won? Me. Far be it from Canadians to play the rules to the bone(admittedly, these days moreso then previously), and expect the others to do the same. We're all doing our best not to break the rules, is it too much to ask others to do the same? Did I mention I won? |
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Jamus
Joined: 18 Jun 2005
Posts: 577
Location: Valour
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: |
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I just eh... ctrl+f'd the page for "mong" and didn't really read the rest of the crap, so...
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| So...Knights are healing out-of-range, hoarding items (purples and such, ex. Mongtufa when fighting Amirlith) |
I don't really remember who this was aganist, but if whoever it was was in a cabal, wouldn't that be ok? Since you can attack cabal'd with groups?
| Quote: |
| (group leader because mong was following as well checking my health) I was in (one room over) and I was attacked again, and Iriqeous was healing again. |
In the mists, right? Right next to the purple? I just followed kind of to see what you would do, and to watch the fight, not "checking your health". I was kind of wondering why you were pissed about that. Yeah, not really helping anyone out/meaning to hurt anyone. All you had to do was type in was -S-O-L-ENTER, anyways. No big deal. |
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Hilemal
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Okay, since I don't want this conversation to die since as of yet, not much has come out of it (although Burzuk had a great post).
First, thanks for starting the mud slinging Dav. Exactly the reason Jaek something didn't want to bring this to the forum. You should remember the following:
1) This log was posted by a Knight
2) I was actually the first person to post a reply questioning the actions, and I have nothing to do with canadians or brandon
3) the discussion was brought to this forum by Clifton, so it wasn't Brandon bringing this to the forum to bash on him
4) Two wrongs don't make a right. I don't know what all Brandon has done in the past, is doing in the present, or will do in the future, but if they break the rules the individuals should be punished. If someone else breaks the rules when fighting against them, then he should be punished. To start saying "Well you guys have done all this crap before so therefore anything anyone else does is okay" is rather foolish. That just means that the rules don't apply
In reply to your post Jamus, you mentioned the actions of the Knights being okay since it was cabal related. I don't think this is the case as this isn't about group gangbanging between cabals. This is an issue of rules against out of range assistance.
That being said, I think what Iriqeous did is not that big of a deal. Sure, he shouldn't have done it, but what's done is done, no biggie. This conversation should hopefully just serve as a clarification to everyone regarding how to handle the situation. The big deal to me at least was the IMM's response of saying "What do you expect him to do, let him die?" For an IMM to say it's okay to break the rules makes me think something is messed up at the top. Course, we all make mistakes and need clarification on the issues, so hopefully this conversation can assist with that as well |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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well you guys have done all this crap before so therefore anything anyone else does is okay ...... For an IMM to say it's okay to break the rules makes me think something is messed up at the top.
an imm saying.. "What do you expect him to do, let him die?"
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I posted things like this:
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1) I'm not going to pay any attention to what you've posted on the logboard because anyone can make something up over that
2) I didn't see it occuring in game, and apparently neither did any other Imm (and there are at least 10 who can, eh?). End of discussion.
3) Did anybody post any complaint about it in game at all? No. |
I don't see a single line in my post where I even implied their track record made it ok to break rules versus them. As far as I can tell, what you accuse me of saying is completely ficticious. Care to explain what you are replying to? Since you know, those accusations you're making are pretty serious, we wouldn't want them to be unfounded. |
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Hilemal
Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 71
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| Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 4:17 am Post subject: |
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Nope! Sorry, I shouldn't have thread jacked in the first place, but if you'd really like to talk about this in seriousness, feel free to PM me (does that work here? I think I remember someone saying does). I'd rather this not turn into a stupid thread. If no PM here, feel free to do so on invokation, I check that one occasionally!
Sounds like you are offended, not intended. I think at the end of the day it all comes down to me believing what is posted on the log board (perhaps foolishly) and you not |
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