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| Are you happy with the cabal mechanics? |
| Yes |
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40% |
[ 6 ] |
| Not completely but it works well enough |
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26% |
[ 4 ] |
| No but I still put myself through it anyway because I want a cabal |
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20% |
[ 3 ] |
| No and I avoid cabals |
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13% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 15 |
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_Clifton_
Emissary
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1405
Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.
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 Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Mandor.. do you ever think about your ideas before you post?
I mean really, just think about it for 3 seconds...
How easily abusable is your idea? I mean really... |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| clifton you forgot the sarcasm tags again. |
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_Clifton_
Emissary
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1405
Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| No.. I wasn't being sarcastic. I really want to know if you think your posts through. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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So you're not interested in discussing the topic? Or are you personally attacking me to purposefully derail this? Or perhaps do you want to be able to gank lowbies in their cabal because they have to defend if you invade and you now get 6 ranks on them to rape them freely? Either way you're not presenting any counterpoints or well thought argumentation for or against what anyone here has to say.
So clifton, you know personal attacks are against the rules of the forum right? |
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_Clifton_
Emissary
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1405
Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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I'm just trying to make sure you realize you're wasting other people's time by not thinking through the entire idea. I mean, if I'm going to spend my time reading someone else's post, then they should at least be considerate enough to make their posts worth reading, which you obviously don't (by the way, that's a personal attack, just so you aren't missing anything).
I'm asking about the foundation of the idea. When there's enough reason for to me to believe there is indeed a foundation, I will treat your statements as an argument and respond in kind. Until then, you haven't earned the right.
By the way, Mandor, you should grow up a little (or a lot) [yes, that's another personal attack], and realize that not all criticisms are personal attack. Some of them actually try to help you better yourself as a person.
Oh, btw, if I can rape a lowbie that I get 10 ranks on, I will most certainly do that. And by doing that, if the Imms decide that the system is broken, they will most likely fix it. The way to get things done isn't by moaning and crying, it's by showing that the system is broken. |
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Blarg
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 109
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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Mandor, bonuses and incentives NOT to rank to 50 are the last thing this game needs.
I'm happy with the current cabal mechanics, but the recent tendency of players capable of succeeding in a cabal to just trash or rage delete instead is a little frustrating. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Blarg wrote: |
Mandor, bonuses and incentives NOT to rank to 50 are the last thing this game needs.
I'm happy with the current cabal mechanics, but the recent tendency of players capable of succeeding in a cabal to just trash or rage delete instead is a little frustrating. |
so a tick based regen that only works while actively fighting someone 6+ ranks above you is an incentive not to rank? especially when it works the same amount of heal per tick (lets say 50 hp) no matter how many people you are being attacked by.
Clifton, google the definition of personal attack. that was the ad hominem argument you provided after what I said.Cross referenced with every reliable source, you basically resort to personal attacks more than half the time in your posts.
Last edited by Mandor on Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Blarg
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
Posts: 109
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Mandor wrote: |
| Blarg wrote: |
| Mandor, bonuses and incentives NOT to rank to 50 are the last thing this game needs. |
so a tick based regen that only works while actively fighting someone 6+ ranks above you is an incentive not to rank? |
Exactly. If you want to even the odds against a higher level opponent, Rank. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Blarg wrote: |
| Mandor wrote: |
| Blarg wrote: |
| Mandor, bonuses and incentives NOT to rank to 50 are the last thing this game needs. |
so a tick based regen that only works while actively fighting someone 6+ ranks above you is an incentive not to rank? |
Exactly. If you want to even the odds against a higher level opponent, Rank. |
how abusable is it going to be to squash lowbies who have to defend their cabal grounds when you're rared out completey?
| Code: |
Help Cabal
Members *must* return to the shrine to defend it when it is attacked.
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theoretically, a 50 legion could sit in knights cabal all day long killing new knights because they have to go suicide marching with no option. I think my point will be proved soon enough though, so we'll just sit back and watch.
Last edited by Mandor on Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mahkan
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 264
Location: The Interwebs
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| it is abusable on purpose, the idea is that lower caballed characters rank up as fast as they can so they dont get raped. They are supposed to be raped and deserve no help, they need to rank. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2008 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Mahkan wrote: |
| it is abusable on purpose, the idea is that lower caballed characters rank up as fast as they can so they dont get raped. They are supposed to be raped and deserve no help, they need to rank. |
quitting out while cabal is under attack is breaking the rules of being in your cabal > being forced to defend means you CANT rank > getting ganked means you have no EQ to rank with anymore, more time spent gathering to rank again which still isnt happening because they're squatting in your grounds forcing you to defend, naked or semi dressed > This means people can use it in a griefing manner to keep people online, naked, and from ranking up.
Yes, thats quite fun. |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
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The problem with this argument is the premise that it actually makes it any more difficult to rank to 50. Which is wrong.
1) Vast majority of players have displayed little to no interest at all in just raiding cabals to gank a lowbie. They don't seem to even care that you'll get cabal powers to gank them easily with when you eventually reach their pk range. Maybe they avoid this because its risky and doesn't pad their pk record due to level differences? Maybe theyre sheep/zombie-ing.. Either way this isn't really occuring.
2) Levelling is long spoiled by the surging, guild points, the inducts at 40, "monster potions", hobble. Hah. Its pretty out of hand anyway. You can get inducted two kills from level 41 and then surge straight to 44 or 45 in one go, and then permagroup with some caballed 50s. People who can't rank aren't going to get sympathy from me. You should know before you join a cabal that you are expected to rank swiftly, since every cabal tells you to do that.
Besides, whats the use losing sleep over a mortal dieing a couple times? This is the proper mentality of a caballing player -- You should be prepared to die over and over and just not give a crap. Something that's really magical about AR is to be chased all over by a guy that doesn't give a fuck about possibly losing a suit of nice rare items, he just wants to stomp your ass, full loot, and call you a dumbass. I don't think there is anything in AR any scarier than facing a player like that. And if he loses you had better loot quickly enough to stop him trying again. When you gank a guy like that when he's low levels, all you're doing is setting yourself up for your own ego-crush wahwah rage delete later. Cabals demand a much different character mindset, you just can't play them in the same way as independents. You are logging in hoping to fight any battle you can find. This is why pk stat activity is dominated by cabal vs cabal action. |
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_Clifton_
Emissary
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1405
Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: |
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| Mandor wrote: |
| Clifton, google the definition of personal attack. that was the ad hominem argument you provided after what I said.Cross referenced with every reliable source, you basically resort to personal attacks more than half the time in your posts. |
Yes, you are absolutely right. In fact, I pointed out where I was making personal attacks on you. What is your point? |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:14 am Post subject: |
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| _Clifton_ wrote: |
| Mandor wrote: |
| Clifton, google the definition of personal attack. that was the ad hominem argument you provided after what I said.Cross referenced with every reliable source, you basically resort to personal attacks more than half the time in your posts. |
Yes, you are absolutely right. In fact, I pointed out where I was making personal attacks on you. What is your point? |
| Quote: |
| By the way, Mandor, you should grow up a little (or a lot) [yes, that's another personal attack], and realize that not all criticisms are personal attack. Some of them actually try to help you better yourself as a person. |
you try to state the opposite implicitly without actually coming out and saying it to give yourself ground to back peddle, which you just did.
| Vhrael wrote: |
| The RULES wrote: |
The RULES
- DON'T attack (ad hominem) other users of the forum. Address the subject or point of view, not the person.
- DON'T "thread hijack" - stick to the topic at hand. Some natural topic drift is anticipated for long threads, we can tell the difference, so can you. |
Take your disagreements elsewhere. This thread is supposed to be about the update, not your personal conflicts. |
and it goes unenforced. yay.  I understand that imms cant police it all the time, but clifton is the one personally attacking only, and he keeps doing it, and there is no reprimand from any imm who has seen clifton keeping it up in this thread.
Dav, you give people too much credit I think, since you just stated what hasn't happened, and given the mechanic to do it, you know people like mico, rem, and mullet are going to abuse it for all its worth. So yes, I'll agree with you and we'll just wait and see. |
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Mahkan
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 264
Location: The Interwebs
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| Mandor wrote: |
| Mahkan wrote: |
| it is abusable on purpose, the idea is that lower caballed characters rank up as fast as they can so they dont get raped. They are supposed to be raped and deserve no help, they need to rank. |
quitting out while cabal is under attack is breaking the rules of being in your cabal > being forced to defend means you CANT rank > getting ganked means you have no EQ to rank with anymore, more time spent gathering to rank again which still isnt happening because they're squatting in your grounds forcing you to defend, naked or semi dressed > This means people can use it in a griefing manner to keep people online, naked, and from ranking up.
Yes, thats quite fun. |
Dont join a cabal if you cant handle it. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| Mahkan wrote: |
| Mandor wrote: |
| Mahkan wrote: |
| it is abusable on purpose, the idea is that lower caballed characters rank up as fast as they can so they dont get raped. They are supposed to be raped and deserve no help, they need to rank. |
quitting out while cabal is under attack is breaking the rules of being in your cabal > being forced to defend means you CANT rank > getting ganked means you have no EQ to rank with anymore, more time spent gathering to rank again which still isnt happening because they're squatting in your grounds forcing you to defend, naked or semi dressed > This means people can use it in a griefing manner to keep people online, naked, and from ranking up.
Yes, thats quite fun. |
Dont join a cabal if you cant handle it. |
another baseless ad hominem comment.. I've done the cabal scene. How about newbies who want to try a cabal, get ganked hard like I describe, and quit the game completely because they don't understand that the process requires a masochistic streak, or to be damn good. not everyone comes into this game with the "hardcore" mindset that you think they should have for applying to a cabal. like I said before, we'll wait and see what comes of it. I'm sure it won't be pretty. Should newbies be in a cabal? I didn't say so, but eventually they might become good enough RP/PK wise to pass the tests, then they're in for the real treat of 8-10 rank+ penalty against a winter rared 50 fire giant berserker legionnaire.
someone good enough at muds to succeed against equal rank opponents and get into a cabal will probably experience intense frustration in trying to defend their cabal for ranks 40-43.
| Code: |
Players found: 8
There are 8 characters on; the most on since startup was 25.
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yes, there are many factors for this, but have you ever heard of death by 1000 cuts? even little things can be important. |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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......................f`-,.........`-,/...*-,___,,-~*....,-*......|...`-,..........\........ |
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Esura
Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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I like getting killed. That's one step closer to condeath, and condying is what all of the cool kids do. Rage deleting is stupid and regular deleting is unfashionable.  Yay masochism! |
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Mummy
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 698
Location: Under Resatimm's Ass
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Esura wrote: |
| I like getting killed. That's one step closer to condeath, and condying is what all of the cool kids do. Rage deleting is stupid and regular deleting is unfashionable. Yay masochism! |
lol at that.
| Mandor wrote: |
another baseless ad hominem comment.. I've done the cabal scene. How about newbies who want to try a cabal, get ganked hard like I describe, and quit the game completely because they don't understand that the process requires a masochistic streak, or to be damn good. not everyone comes into this game with the "hardcore" mindset that you think they should have for applying to a cabal. like I said before, we'll wait and see what comes of it. I'm sure it won't be pretty. Should newbies be in a cabal? I didn't say so, but eventually they might become good enough RP/PK wise to pass the tests, then they're in for the real treat of 8-10 rank+ penalty against a winter rared 50 fire giant berserker legionnaire.
someone good enough at muds to succeed against equal rank opponents and get into a cabal will probably experience intense frustration in trying to defend their cabal for ranks 40-43.
Code:
Players found: 8
There are 8 characters on; the most on since startup was 25.
yes, there are many factors for this, but have you ever heard of death by 1000 cuts? even little things can be important. |
Okay. Let's start at the top (that's the way I like doing it(if you just thought that, you're a perv (which is good  ))). Anyways. Personal attacks, Clifton was trying to help you engage your mind. Clifton is rough-hewn, but he usually knows what he is talking about. Like here.
Your idea was creative, so good there, but it was impractical. Note characters with gobs of health at low ranks that get evened out at higher ranks. I know it's not exactly regular, but Davairus' halfling thief with 850 hp at 40 I think? Now do what he did and do it on a dwarf and get 1000+ at 40. Yeah. They need the help.
And if you're getting ganked in the cabal grounds, walk out. Nothing says you have to kill yourself. Just go in, do your best, get to 50 hp, you don't sit there, you're just gonna die and do no good. Get out, heal, try again.
There are so many variables, you can't just assume that all those lowbies need help.
Why reward people for NOT ranking? That's what your health thing would do. It just wasn't well thought out. Sorry.
In summary, the conversation over this idea should be over.... the idea was creative, but poorly-designed.
EDIT: I forgot to mention the part about the new people. We've all gone through it and we're still here. We've had this convo before. Getting killed is what keeps us here. If we never got killed, it would get so boring. A band of sadomasochists? Probably. They shouldn't get a cake walk because they are new. They have to smell the coffee-stained carpet sooner or later, might as well get it over with. |
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Groq
Immortal
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 500
Location: Downstate NY
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| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I love lamp! |
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