Looking for anti-chaotic alignment suggestions

[wudst]

I agree with Stiehl to the extent that if we had cool lawful items and no chaotic items lawful's would be more prominent than they are now, depending on how cool the lawful items were, a bit less than chaotic probably, however certainly not the overwhelming numbers we see now.

I disagree that those items define the difference between chaotic and neutral. I think neutral is useless, unless you are going for keepers. Chaotic items just accentuate how fucking useless having a neutral ethos is.

[_Clifton_]

If people would roleplay their ethos, <rant>. FFS people.

[RebornShadows]

i agree with clif. And hey not all neut neut people go for keepers.

[Davairus]

After analysis and contemplation for several hours tonight I have deliberated that the cause of the chaotic mess is chiefly the wild weapon attacks. The weapons are indeed easier to get than rares, however this has drawback of being rotdeath and also the non-returned items/swift common criminal problem. What makes those weapons so good is that lethal "chakera strike" like effect they do. It is clear that Burzuk intended them to backfire when he made that sometimes result in crap damage instead of good damage. And the lower aves are a good way of keeping the sustained damage output pretty average. However this doesn't eliminate the chakera strike affects every once in while which is very appealing (because it kills people) its no wonder everyone wants chaotic.

My response was to place "wild strikes" on both combatants when a wild weapon is in the mix. So if you're wielding a wild weapon you might do a nice "chakera strike" but you also might take one. Chaotics will have the advantage of determining whether the battle will be like that, but now it really can backfire on them. If we are worrying this is too strong then it can always fire at a reduced rate or something.

At the moment I don't see a need for further fixes

[Stiehl26]

What will happen if a chaotic thief with a spider blade, for example, backstabs someone and the wild affect goes off? Also, lets say that thief is absolutely retarded (or a newer player who is trying to catch up to the combat modules and obscure things (off hand attacks for ninjas are better?? huh what?? where does it say that??...thieves have a higher weight capacity than other classes with the same strength??)) and backstabs a warrior with a wild weapon hits his double backstab, gets countered and somewhere in there with the counters and backstabs the wild attacks go off (super unlikely...but possible). I don't even think "unspeakable things" would be good enough of a damage message for that. Poor thief.

[_Clifton_]

[Kalist19]

[Rezakhan]

So, I came a little late to the discussion, but just to throw my two cents in:

I like the idea of doing something with banking, but not allowing chaotics to use a bank at all would be pretty awful for them.

How about that because they are inherently untrustworthy, chaotics cannot use normal banks, but have to go to special 'banks' (aka moneylenders, loan sharks, however you want to describe it). These banks can either (or both) 1) Be in out of the way places, 2) Charge exorbitant interest rates--yeah, you can put 100K in the bank when you want to, but any time you want to take something out you have to pay 30%.

[rabidgecko]

I don't think the whole trustworthy thing really applies in this situation. After all, they have your money and not the other way around.

[Stiehl26]

Chaotic doesnt mean untrustworthy, it means unpredictable. If they where chaotic-evil, well thats another thing altogether.

[Insom]

If it's going to be like that, then Legion should control the chaotic evil bank. Now what would be interesting is if you were able to rob banks.....

[Vevier]

I think it would be neat to have more ethos restricted items. It seems unfair that chaotics have it all.

[MrCarb]

Ok, so this change has sorted out the craziness of wild attacks and now being chaotic isn't as sweet as it used to be, so I'm all for it. But isn't there still a bit of an equipment issue with other ethos, particularly for evils? When wild items/weapons came in, there was a) a bunch of new weapons which were wild, b) a bunch of existing items that were tagged as wild and c) the sweetest gamled-item shops selling exclusively wild gear.

It is still alot easier to find passable equipment at almost any rank as a chaotic (just having options like the dangerous dagger, the axe of mahn tor, the dagger of chaos, the spider blade, not to mention all the gambled goodness and chaotic-only armor, too) makes life so much easier, and I think chaotic will remain over-reprsented as long as this is the case. The numbers of wild gear might not look that huge in the great scheme of things, but they tend to be precisely those items that are decent and easy to get.

[_Clifton_]

Like Davairus said, the main reason people use the wild weapons is for that huge chakera strike, which when luckily timed will win you fights. Doing a grazes/wounds isn't going to cause you to lose, but hitting a *** may cause you to win. But now that it goes both ways, fights vs chaotics should be more interesting. I'm waiting to see a wild weapon vs wild weapon fight and see the wild attacks just fly.

[TheOneAndOnly]

So I've thought about this and here is what I've come up with:

Lawful alignment should drop adrenaline faster - wisdom check would decide how quickly.

Lawful should be allowed to enter any guild within Seringale. As they are not allowed to attack in Seringale no harm should be done. With attacking the guild guardian adding adrenaline it would prevent people from guild hopping to prevent pk.
(or)

(not sure about this one) Allow Lawful to enter guild regardless of adrenaline - Seringale acting like a safe haven for Lawfuls. As Lawfuls are not permitted to attack in town this would be a minor obstacle for the aggressor vs. a tide turning action by the lawful. Guild guardians of Seringale are weak anyways.

I like the idea that chaotics should not fall under the protection of the Justice (or perhaps chaotics that are common criminals) - this would allow chaotics to slaughter chaotics while the lawful and justice sit comfortably within Seringale. I do understand the mentality that Justice is enforcing the law without bias but from the pk perspective I like the added element.

[Davairus]

I already have bank cap and interest rate changes in the mind for chaotics, but I did say I wasn't really convinced any further modifications than the wild weapon change were necessary. We want to just address the root of the problem and leave it, not throw in bells and whistles because we're bored or something. People can play chaotics to save time wasted on gaining gold for gambling (presumably because they'd rather spend that time pvp), and that's ok.

[_Clifton_]

I still say nerf the wanted flag. Leave the really painful shit for bountied.

[Stiehl26]

[Ergorion]

Being Wanted sucks balls if you hadn't noticed. So much so that practically no one under rank forty attacks in town because they don't want to deal with the special guard and xp loss from being wanted, not to mention you can't buy anything from certain shops, the guards in Seringale attack you when you're visible, and Dagnir attacks you even if you're invisible.

I agree with Clifton that the cons to being wanted should be toned down. It seems like Justice is always one of the more inactive cabals and I think that's because everyone is so bored as Justices because no one ever breaks the laws when a Justice is in town. Though the new legion item stealing gag should give them more to do and might actually cause a rise in interest in Justice. But I agree with Clifton on this one.

[wudst]

I third (obviously). I think it would really intensify the pk atmosphere and bring justices to not being bored as poop with the lower pbase...

I really think justice needs something, and I think this would be it.