Its really disappointing about rares.

[Mandor]

practically all rares have extremely high level requirements. If someone submits a rare that is level "50" to the auction, noone under level 50 can bid on it.

Problems:

- Some rares are so underpowered or simple mediocre compared to other rares of the same level, they don't have the need to be limited to level 50.

- Vulture looting should be and is the only way to obtain powerful rares now.

- There are no low level rares, relatively speaking. Sure, there's still the dragon tailed whip as an example of a heavy hitter low level rare, but its one of the few.

Multiple times, EQ has been reverse nerfed, so to speak. The dark oak lord now rages when attacked, and carries all the non-rare dark oak. At this point, killing the red dragon is better.

Wasn't the whole point of the rare system and the better eq system so that people would be interested in killing each other? (on a side note, there should be a few more powerful rares that aren't antigood or evil at lower ranks, to help increase the friction between good and evil)

wasn't the point of the better eq and rare system so that people would actively try to get such things, and people could raise money by killing rare holding mobs and selling them, thus circulating rares around the game?

problems with the past system:

- you have a lowbie rare hoarder holding onto avg 22 weapons and +3 dam armor pieces, massacring lowbies. not fun for lowbies I suppose.

- people have the eq to rise quickly with levelling.

- newbies are at a greater disadvantage because another player may have more skill and knowledge as well as an uber set.

solutions:

- lowbies and newbies gangbang.

- Other people see these hoarders as a target for killing. thus, they and other item hungry people will attempt to kill them, and at least one person will. This circulates items, with the vulture and limit of one item loot at a time system at lower ranks.

- newbies, on learning how to vulture lowbie hoarder corpses, will have the power to stand some form of chance against a good player that has no rares or powerful eq.

[Faelon]

I have never agreed with a level based rare system, I think they are lame. It was never that way before now and the only thing that happened because of it was {Insert Whining}.

[Davairus]

I think people prefer to work towards finishing out sets in low levels, then levelling with those. You shouldn't have to worry about rares until the mid 20s or even early 30s, and even then it's only weapons that are a huge priority because the stats on sets scale with you. There's just not much gap between rares and non-rares in those ranks, certainly nothing that a round of missed sanc can't easily close. So sure, we can put more lowbie rares in for flavour, but that's all it'd be I think, and they won't be worth pk'ing people over. The majority of desirable rares remain at 50 and even the sets require rares to finish, even the gambled items encourage you to pick up rare pieces.

I don't think AR is the kind of game where you need to worry about every level being 100% balanced for every single level division, but you want to make sure there's nothing too easily obtainable that a lowbie pk'er can get his hands on. Like spiked collars for instance, that's not really a fair item. But then there's mahn-tor, which has a lot of sweet items for the late 20s/early 30s, and you will have to deal with tons of aggro and kills that take time, so in that case you might actually get pk'ed if you get there first. I can't see a problem with the mahn-tor arrangement. Do we really need to add more spiked collar-esque rareholders for low levels? I would much rather add new things into mahn-tor where your chances of meeting someone else looking for the item is pretty high.

I have thought about an "armor penetration" rares-only stat to force people to upgrade their gamble items and move away from level 15 mithrils/lowbie rares at 50. I had a Keeper skill doing this same thing though, but the feedback told me it was useless. I'm looking for something for rares to get them standing out though. I definitely want Keepers to have their work cut out for them, not to be the dominant force they have been feeling like.

As for people equipping light spiked steel at level 30, its possible I thought. If you can equip something you can bid on it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mandor]

someone was selling something that was level 33, and I could not bid on it, being a few levels under. I promptly asked to buy it from them personally, and was able to wear it afterward.

and Mahn-tor, most of the mobs are reasonable to attack and kill, except the one that does third attacks with a flail.

Also, I've powered up a rare to become unable to wear it, via enchant weapon.

L32 4xEnchant = L35 = i can no longer wear it? wtf?

[bassball]

I know that the auction won't let you bid if you can't wear it, but there have been a LOT of times in my experience where it wouldn't let you bid, but they could indeed wear it. So something needs tweaked there.

As for lowbies needing more rares.. who cares I say. They don't need to be messing with getting rare gear they need to rank up. If there is no one to hunt with then you can go and grab gear, but you don't need rare gear because there is higher ranked non-rare gear that is basically "rare" for lowbies.

[Davairus]

Well the AH seems fine then. Obviously being below the rare level forces you to ask that guy if he's willing to sell it directly to you, and he might not, because he might feel conscious about giving rares to lowbies that are still a bit low level. He can just make a judgement call on that, if its only mithril armor he shouldn't be unwilling to sell. That's not really a broken mechanic. I've seen a lot of extremely good rare weapons being acquired by lowbies for like 10k on the AH, and to me that's always seemed pretty bogus, but they're things that nobodys willing to pay over 10k for, even at 50.

I'd like to give rares a meaningful value, like, you can convert them into shards, where the amount of shards you get depends on the rarity and the level of the object, and then the shards will trade for something that all levels want, like consumables or obviously other rares. Something that can be cashed in. Maybe gambling tokens. Obviously we want people to be able to offload rares somehow besides just saccing them. Less obviously we want the interim currency to get consumed easily.

Also with the rare acquiring deal, what I'm really concerned about (besides the difficulty) is the actual time. Gathering rares should be time away from levelling and other activities, like all item gathering is. The problem with auction house rares is that you can easily create 100k gold from grinding an hour of surge, so prices are never going to be high enough.

[Ergorion]

Don't overlook the whole recipe deal for dealing with rares you might not want but come across. Maybe you get something useful out of it.

[Mandor]

[Davairus]

The point I was hoping to make was that a rares-for-shards scheme raises the value of good unmolested rares on the AH and otherwise assigns a base cost - for instance, if you know a rare of level 50 is going to produce 5 shards, which are each worth 5k in gambling "credit", then that rare is a 25k sale. Or 15k for fast sale, which would still be ridiculously cheap. But would you actually still want to sell it? Maybe you can just shard it and try to gamble afterward. Or maybe you know someone who considers that item the best for their character , and will pay you double its value in shards. That's all I'm saying. Rare prices at the moment, suck. The players just threw out a figure they made up based on their experience. Its a figure which unfortunately newbies can easily afford even on the best stuff. On the other hand, nobodys going to be upset about trading shards, because the shoppies already level restrict the gambling. Its kinda wow-ish is the only disadvantage I see to this. But it sorta fits with everything else.

[Faelon]

I like the idea that rares could be useful in other ways, especially if it is in a way that you can kill someone else and take from them. Suddenly it would become a commodity, sort of like Ore, but hopefully slightly more desired and used.

[Gadlo]

to me, the prices are all real low. like its been mentioned you can easily grind out 100k in an hour of surge. for most true uniques i've had in the past i wouldn't want to sell for less than 200k but i know noone would want to buy for that much. you spend a good 100k just to gamble 5-6 items, of which 1 might have value (at least, has been my experience)

i would welcome something that set a good base determinant on rares/uniques like the shard idea from Dav

[Thorgoth]

I agree that the rares and uniques of the game are being viewed as something that is just to be ored, and that is because it is really the only "mindless" thing you can do at 50. I personally don't take rares unless I need them, but other people stock up on them and hit the AH. However I've noticed some very badass rares going up for sale at killer prices and I hardly pass up the opportunity. I think the idea that you are running with is a good one, Davairus, but I also think that the addition of a 'price minimum' based on objects unique/rare status and level. that way you could try to sell a bejewelled battle axe and end up with a reponse from Rimath like 'that is quite a powerful item, based on it's attributes i would consider selling it for '12500 instead of 8000 you are considering.' so that way it gives the seller an idea of just how "powerful" the rare/unique is. at which point you could decide whether you want to hit it up for runes(shards) and get something slightly less powerful or equally the same goodness of previous item. that way it's still a random act in which would keep people on their toes.

[Mandor]

well, in a game where thin-bladed axes are "not worth 5000 g", a person can wear a gold rim buckler (L40) at levels below 40, yet cannot bid on it if it were on auction, and black pulsing vine suit, something I dont think is that good, at 2 damroll -1 dex and -5 aff save, as a rare, can only be worn by 50s as it is an L50. It doesn't seem logical.

[Davairus]

I imagine rares like that are probably in a lot and thus would have a higher rarity value (the object "cost" in identify) ... they can be evaluated just fine. And if not the rarity can still be scaled appropriately.