NO_QUIT

[_Clifton_]

The way I look at it is simply this, you have to give your opponent an opportunity to kill you. This means, going there, and skirmishing a bit. It is on the opponent to be able to track and kill you. If they can't manage to do this, it is by no means your fault, especially when you're at a huge level/gear disadvantage. There is nothing that says, you should go in there, eat the death, and quit out naked -- in fact, cabals state the exact opposite. If your opponent can keep up with you and beat you around, good on them. If you can lose them, then that's really their issue. There's not a chance that I would go in and just be prepared to die short of an imm saying go in and die. The simple fact of the matter is all the cabals (minus keepers) have a way to keep you in an area for a reason.

If I can lose you, and there's virtually no chance to for me win, I'm not just going to die so you can loot my shit. I'd bet that no one would willing go in just to die. Maybe I'd repeat it a few times, but eventually the whole exercise would become tedious. Oh, and the cabals (minus keepers) all have mobs that will announce your position to make tracking you easier, just in case you do manage to get away a bit.

[Davairus]

Now don't take that statemnt out of context. It would have to be some pretty motherfucking pimp gear, against innumerable odds, in a gear-dependent cabal. A wanted Legion vs Justices could get away with it. Ask pip or kalist to clarify it.

[Master]

[crazyhorse]

Typically speaking, for me, I take the cabals item if its a gank. Invading is purely to get the other guy to fight me.

[kammkala6]

Clifton what if they have your item and you either go for it and die or quit? What would you do? Would you go in, skirmish a bit and then quit with your item still taken?

[_Clifton_]

If i can't get the item and they can't kill me, the exercise could be repeated ad nausea. It would be a waste of time. More practically speaking, how much closer are you to getting the item if you are naked from a full loot? Since these are judgement calls, you really don't want to make one an imm will disagree with. Side note, there should be more leeway when facing disadvantages and effort has to be made. Whether imms agree with me on this, i dont know

[kammkala6]

If you cant get the item and they cant kill you, that would be in the situation where you go in for only a few rounds and instantly run away.

[crazyhorse]

Guardians are shittastic for a reason. In any non 3 v1 or more situation, you should be able to get your item back. It might take 10 attempts. But you can do it in any situation.

[Faelon]

If someone invades, it is a cabal'd players job to get them out of there. Period. If that means doing it over and over, than so be it. The uncabal'd don't HAVE to do anything. So fleeing out of the cabal and praying they chase is you is a good idea, but it is not mandatory for them to chase you. It is mandatory for a cabal'd player to defend. I don't see where the god damn misunderstanding is here.

Person invades.
You go fight and get low on health, run.
They don't Chase.
You quit.

How is that above a part of the cabal structure? Where does it say you just have to kind of half ass it? I may not be the best pk'er on the planet, but god damn ask any Knight I fought against if they invaded, I got them out or I died in the attempt. Thats part of being in a cabal.

[kammkala6]

I guess you died for no reason mate.

[Mandor]

[_Clifton_]

putting words in his mouth right now won't have any effect when he kicks your character for poor conduct. there aren't specific guidelines for this for the simple reason that everything is reviewed on a case by case basis.

[Mandor]

[Davairus]

I think it would help you to understand how the Immortals actually look at their role in enforcing the requirements of the cabals. Remember, we're the same bunch of people that deal with renames and descs, cheating and equipment multis. That's the majority of an Imms workload.. its tiring, its tedious, its not fun, but it has to be done by somebody for the better of the game. So the last thing we want is to have to wade into the cabals and pull out weeds from there too.. these players aren't supposed to need that guidance. Can you say burn-out?

There is the simple hard-coded act of knocking on a cabal's door to refresh adrenaline provided... that means YOU THE ATTACKER can decide when your opponent leaves.. there's no need to complain so much about that. Use what has been given. I can give you my opinion on some situations where I don't see the *uncaballed* players caring if you hid or just quit on them (its different when its cabal vs cabal raiding for sure), but the "help cabal conduct" helpfile is basically there to be followed, and if you don't like anything in that, then just don't join.

[Mandor]

Of course the cabal conduct needs to be followed, as its the rules for joining one, such as the conduct for knights or the conduct for keepers. Someone that joins the respective cabal and proceeds to not do anything is telling the leaders of the cabal they don't want to be there.

It's the unfounded complaining thats also problematic. Like you say, adrenaline can be refreshed via the guardian, so if someone still is able to quit, they have to have voided, which means they were vulnerable and killable. Which means that there is no way someone can just up and quit. Which means there shouldnt be an issue anymore. I don't like it either when people start claims that go largely unproven and have an unreasonable basis. It's like making imms spend time watching ugly paint dry when they could be doing better things for the game. So I hope anyone out there who is a cabal ground tagging whine turd thinks about that.

with a hard coded method now that stops quitting, its impossible now to complain that someone did quit out during a cabal raid, since you cant quit under adrenaline.

That should solve all complaints now, right?

In summation, people can no longer quit if someone is trying to invade, so they cannot ever be accused of quitting again.

[Ceridwel]

I've been following along this thread and others lately about cabal conduct, and I have just one question....why are cabal members afraid to die? I looked at the graveyard back to Jan 1 2007, and there have been only TEN condeath cabal members, most of them Knights.

Are youz really so scared to defend against bad odds, because youz are trying to save your lives? Clearly the majority of cabal members delete or rage delete, so what the fuck? Get in there and get your hands dirty!

Or is it just about saving your good gear?

[crazyhorse]

Gear. Period.

[Vhrael]

[crazyhorse]

I was explaining the viewpoint. I wasnt defending any actions.

I think clif was a bitch for quiting out with 8 ranks.