An invoker idea

[divsky]

The invoker is a class that I feel may be needing a bit of work. When I think of a mage like the invoker I like to think of.. well, the sorceress from Diablo 2. Remember how frozen orb sorcs could out-damage any class, but they had to stock up on tons of +mana equipment because of their massive mana drains? That's what I'd like to see from the invoker. The quintessential glass-cannon.

Hellstream does use up a good deal of mana, but not so much that any invoker would ever need to put any trains into mana. And their damage output isn't too impressive either. Again, hellstream or chain lightning can be nice, but any decently equipped warrior, or any necro or illusionist for that matter can easily out-damage them.

So here's my idea, to flesh out the invoker and give them a bit more oomph. Give them a skill similar to the dark knight's unholy strength. But instead of increasing damroll it increases the damage dealt by the invoker's afflictive spells. The level of this can be increased as many times as the invoker chooses. However, every new level not only increases the constant mana upkeep of the skill, but also increases the mana required to cast any afflictive spell. Should the invoker run out of mana with this skill up they enter a state of reduced mana regen similar to the regen rate of the illithid after using shock.

The effect? Invokers chugging down insane amounts of mana in exchange for insane amounts of damage. The downside? An invoker with 0 mana is a dead invoker. If they don't have the mana to recast sanctuary, weapon ward or protective shield, they're dead. You may even see invokers using mystic tendrils just to keep this skill from falling, or training mana instead of hp, or even wearing +mana gear. And the motto of the invoker would become "more mana = more damage".

That would be pretty cool if you ask me. A little variation from everyone being decked out in damroll gear.

This could also easily be countered by simply avoiding the invoker until they run out of mana from the upkeep.

[Vhrael]

So what's to stop getting a decent gambled affbreak item and just going that route instead? Seems like too much negative effect for little benefit, unless you're talking like *** damage through sanc.

[Zanderic]

I do agree that the invoker needs something. They just seem to maybe keep up with average damage dealers but will get blown away by some of the higher end people mostly cause gear wont effect them hardly at all. Perhaps introduce a new stat that could appear on some items that boost magic damage? I have no idea for what could work, but I think they need something since they are pretty easy to kill.

[Zanderic]

Perhaps change enchant armor to grant a stat that reduces the lag caused by casting spell, effectivly allowing you to cast more spells more often. This doesnt seem to be too overpowered. I am thinking that if you gain the maximum number of these items that the most benifit one person should be allowed would be 50% reduced lag. Meaning they can cast twice as fast. This should only reduce lag from spells cast by the user of the items. This would not reduce the effects of bash or such on the target, that would be too strong. This would even be something that a healer might want. If it is an issue of other classes using this ability make it so that the armor that is enchanted becomes no drop.

[Xerties]

Reducing spell lags would be waaaaay to overpowered. Being able to cast hellstream every round instead of every 1.5 rounds would be huge. And what about something that is already a 1 round lag, like chain lightning? Would that reduce further? I would love to be able to blast a chain lightning twice inbetween rounds, but that's not gonna happen nor should it. I agree enchant armor needs to be looked at, but this is not the solution.

[Mummy]

[Zanderic]

Just an idea, not solution. I am no balancing expert. Just thought it would be sorta cool and new. Wich I think we could all use more of.

[Xerties]

Agreed. Just giving you feedback on your idea.

[Zanderic]

Perhaps part of the reason Hellstream seems alittle underpowered is because no one really cares about the small chance to destroy an item. In fact sometimes that is a bad thing. I know in a Winter run, I better not see an invoker casting hellstream on a target with an item I want. But in a battle, partiularly against a fighting class. Destroying a weapon ( Very unlikely) could be devistating. Perhaps give the invoker the option to temp remove that effect and instead gain more damage, or perhaps raise the minimum but not the maximum effect, giving it a higher average damage.

[Vhrael]

Who ever said hellstream was "underpowered"? Between that and proper management of afflictive spells based on the target (taking vulns into consideration, is it a solo or group target, etc.) invokers aren't hurting in a lot of respects. They just typically can't solo a well-equipped warrior (lag, damage output vs. damage taken, etc.).

There was a reason this thread sat dead for over SIX MONTHS...

[Zanderic]

I think the main point was that most classes will out damage an invoker against a mob target without vuln or protection from anything. It seems like the strength of an invoker just doesnt grow like others. I guess an invoker could go for + damage armor like everyone else. But from what im told invokers are supposed to be going for + hp. I am in no way an expert in anything. If I am completly wrong, it is only cause I am inexperianced enough to know how to maxamize my character. My invoker is runing with platinum set and would have the diamond set too. But then his melee attack are as bad as injure sometimes. He is still only rank 43 now I think, but I see bards doing ***demolishing*** damage with their regular hits 2-3 times a round ( 3 if brawl is included) + they have uncanny attack that will sometimes ===Obliterate===. And the hellstream will on average do ***demolishing*** or maim if I am unlucky, with the ocasional ==obliterate== or ==ANNIHILATE==.

[_Clifton_]

are you talking about mob killing? and basically saying that mobs should be able to be killed faster?

... <--- this is my bewildered look.


edit:

[Zanderic]

Not saying mobs should be killed faster, just saying that invokers should be more useful then just a sanctuary battery in groups that take on winter.

[Olyn]

Chain lightning is a big deal in winter, not to mention the tanking ability against mobs with magic attacks

[Xerties]

If you're spamming hellstream in Winter you're doing it wrong. Invokers are VERY useful in winter, underworld, or other raids. Chain lightning in particular is crazy awesome because it's not a standard AOE (which many mobs in Winter seem to resist). If you're using chain lightning, by the time your main group has taken down the first mob in a group your chain lightning has already reduced the others to 'quite a few wounds' if not more. This speeds up Winter runs immensely. What's more, when coupled with mana shield, chain lightning is very effective against single opponents. It will commonly out damage hellstream on a cast by cast basis, and certainly does over time since the chain lag is 1 round and hellstream is 1.5.

As for PvP action, there are two schools of thought. Hp eq vs damage eq. Many people will say invoker should go all damage eq and there's some truth to that, but I'm not yet fully convinced that is the best strategy 100% of the time. In either case, you're right, a well equipped invoker isn't going to stand a chance against a well equipped warrior and certainly not a well equipped berserker. I'll probably get flamed for this, but it's the truth.

Let's assume, for a moment, that invokers are best suited to be wearing hit/dam armor. That means they're sitting at base hp more or less which is around 600 hp for the average invoker. Gnomes may have more, but I say that's countered by their vuln. Elves certainly have less. Anyhow, for sake of discussion, that you've got 600hp. Let's look at these two rounds for a well equipped berserker vs a decently armored invoker.

[dead]

Just want to point out a raged berserker is a sitting duck for a dispel, then hellstream, or ice storm as you please. So then the damage is even in your math 400 to 400. Using consumables the combat would end up with the berserker at a 200 point disadvantage. I see no problems, if you play it smart.

[Xerties]

If you're lucky and hit the dispel the first try you've still only got one round to capitalize before you have to flee, and you can't even cast anything before you're nearly dead.

init
round
rage/dispel
round
cast
round
dead

You're not going to be gaining anything. You have to flee to use consumes, and then the zerker just quaffs. Plus rage and berserk add svs, making dispel that much harder.

[dead]

Can quaff while raged? Wasn't my impression.

Ideal run threw
init
rage
dispel
flee
heal
heal a bit more
hellsteam until he dies from Oblits every 1.5 rounds.

I am done with the topic now, but..

TLDR - Invokers are fine. Just have to play smarter then say a dumb berserker. Makes sense to me.

[Xerties]

You can quaff while raged provided you're not in combat I'm fairly sure.

[Tepesh]

lol no you cant quaff while raged at all atleast thats how it was about 2 months ago.