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Hrimoyan
Immortal
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 241
Location: Within the Land
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 Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:33 am Post subject: |
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Warriors that rely on agility are dex based races, what are you saying? Fighting as a halfling is a lot different from fighting as a giant, and both can do well. It just takes more effort/skill to perform as a dex type in our current pk environment.
I'm trying but I just can't quite understand you. Your ideas aren't elaborated fully. For what you're trying to say you need to draft a complete idea to submit so we can pick at that, but "make a dex based fighter type" won't fly. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:53 am Post subject: |
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well someone suggested allowing berserkers to be high dex races as well, and from what amdorin wrote coupled with the idea of using a skill to fight faster, like blinding speed, I thought of an agility based warrior of the top of my head, and maybe it will give someone else an idea. this was ball-passing. if I had a serious idea I would've written it all down and posted it in the idea and suggestion forum.
It's nice to see you giving a critical viewpoint though, but this was just going off what other people have said here. I wasn't saying "this should happen". |
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Ergorion
 
Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 2156
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:24 am Post subject: |
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How many times did Thomas Edison fail at making the light bulb? The more ideas we get out here the better in my opinion. If we just keep plugging away at the ideas, we're bound to get at least one good one eventually. But for some reason, the amount of unproductive negative feedback (e.g. bunnies) and the amount of flaming that goes on in response to some ideas creates a negative incentive to post ideas. Someone might have a great idea, but could fear the wrath of the forum and not post it.
What I'm getting at here is instead of saying an idea is useless and leaving it at that, we should either not say anything at all or provide moderately thought-out responses that contribute something to the discussion. Even if an idea is shit, the discussion about it can spark other ideas and perhaps eventually lead to something worthwhile. |
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Hrimoyan
Immortal
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 241
Location: Within the Land
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Ergorion,
Didn't this just happen? The idea was picked apart just now. Why harp about this? I don't, nor anyone else, have to improve an idea that I think lacks a real foundation in the first place other than the "I think this would be cool" factor.
And (for the sake of your analogy) yes Edison didn't succeed the first time creating the Light Bulb, but if he was afraid of the "wrath" of feedback from his peers the lightbulb would not exist today. Also, to further use your analogy, it was primarily Edison making the light bulb instead of saying "this would be cool" and wanting everyone else to build the idea from the ground up.
You're asking people (Dav primarily) to consider an idea and let them fill in the gaps due to their expertise in the game's mechanics. What you are not accepting is their expertise in those mechanics being used as a foundation to measure the sensibility of your specific idea. This specific idea simply doesn't fit in the grand scope of things and until you can deliver an argument (facts/stats/etc) strong enough to challenge such and spark debate(which is very possible) it will remain that way.
Understand that your ideas are important to you, but consider they may not be useful for the game. We've all submitted ideas that have gotten shut down. Take the time to really asses your experience in game (Do you perform well? especially in PK race/class scenarios) and use that to scale the probable validity/biases of your ideas. Not to say "if you are under this measurement, don't submit", but to brace yourself as to why it may get shut down.
Consider you don't know everything, or even enough in the subject matter to contribute appropriately. Every now and then you'll get a bite, and eventually even a catch from the Imms, but it depends on your understanding of the game (displayed ability) and most aren't as informed as they believe themselves to be. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Updated my Sig. It makes perfect sense.
| Hrimoyan wrote: |
Ergorion,
Didn't this just happen? The idea was picked apart just now. Why harp about this? I don't, nor anyone else, have to improve an idea that I think lacks a real foundation in the first place other than the "I think this would be cool" factor.
And (for the sake of your analogy) yes Edison didn't succeed the first time creating the Light Bulb, but if he was afraid of the "wrath" of feedback from his peers the lightbulb would not exist today. Also, to further use your analogy, it was primarily Edison making the light bulb instead of saying "this would be cool" and wanting everyone else to build the idea from the ground up.
You're asking people (Dav primarily) to consider an idea and let them fill in the gaps due to their expertise in the game's mechanics. What you are not accepting is their expertise in those mechanics being used as a foundation to measure the sensibility of your specific idea. This specific idea simply doesn't fit in the grand scope of things and until you can deliver an argument (facts/stats/etc) strong enough to challenge such and spark debate(which is very possible) it will remain that way.
Understand that your ideas are important to you, but consider they may not be useful for the game. We've all submitted ideas that have gotten shut down. Take the time to really asses your experience in game (Do you perform well? especially in PK race/class scenarios) and use that to scale the probable validity/biases of your ideas. Not to say "if you are under this measurement, don't submit", but to brace yourself as to why it may get shut down.
Consider you don't know everything, or even enough in the subject matter to contribute appropriately. Every now and then you'll get a bite, and eventually even a catch from the Imms, but it depends on your understanding of the game (displayed ability) and most aren't as informed as they believe themselves to be. |
the tl:dr version is to continue coming up with ideas, and if you have something you want to be taken seriously, it should be drawn up to be ironclad and be its own thread.
people need to post ideas, even the poor ones, because it can help. Hrim, you should accept that most ideas start out as "wouldn't it be cool", which is what edison thought up. wouldn't it be cool if people could use electricity for light?
I'm not sure why you guys are into the habit of trying to explain how it might be due to inferior knowledge on the part of a poster and superior knowledge on part of the imm staff, but that seems to get rehashed all the time.
| Quote: |
| What I'm getting at here is instead of saying an idea is useless and leaving it at that, we should either not say anything at all or provide moderately thought-out responses that contribute something to the discussion. Even if an idea is shit, the discussion about it can spark other ideas and perhaps eventually lead to something worthwhile. |
It just seems like you're giving the standard " Your ideas aren't elaborated fully. For what you're trying to say you need to draft a complete idea to submit so we can pick at that, but "make a dex based fighter type" won't fly. ", in response to something that was never intended to be considered and go straight into the game. It was just an idea, not an actual theoretical proposition based on stringent application of scientific method to eliminate bias and so forth. If someone else finds anything interesting enough about it that it sparks some idea in their mind they can work with, great.
Perhaps instead we could do this.
We divide Ideas and Suggestions forum into two.
Ideas forum, people can post any idea they like.
Suggestion forum <- this is the place for well thought out ideas that have been carefully analyzed by their proponent before being posted. Eh, wait, we already have that as a private forum for "select" members. |
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_Clifton_
Emissary
Joined: 08 Dec 2005
Posts: 1405
Location: your and you're are not the same. they're, there, and their are not the same. learn to english.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Some people are easily butthurt and terrible at critical analysis of what other people say.
To those people I say, "bitter much?" and then I say, "and you wonder why. lulz". |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Nobody around here butthurt but you apparently, for contributing naught but ad hominem attacks as per usual.  |
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Nyub101
Emissary
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Having a high dex berserker would be interesting, but it does indeed go against everything that a berserker pretty much is. The idea is an interesting one to try to wrap ones head around it, but definitely not well thought of. Could you imagine a drow or elf berserker? Avian, or halfling? I do applaud the effort, but I honestly have to say that it doesn't make much sense RP wise. The closest thing to a high dex berserker would be a Human, which could make sense because humans are easily stupid. Heheh.
**side note. If anyone enjoys cigars, I had an amazing one. Rockey Patel Vintage 1990 Robusto. Simply amazing.  |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:00 pm Post subject: |
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lol. Apparently Clifton got butthurt and deleted my invokation login.  talk about dishing it but not being capable of taking it.
| _Clifton_ wrote: |
Some people are easily butthurt and terrible at critical analysis of what other people say.
To those people I say, "bitter much?" |
Oh, the irony. |
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Hrimoyan
Immortal
Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 241
Location: Within the Land
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| Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Mandor wrote: |
people need to post ideas, even the poor ones, because it can help. Hrim, you should accept that most ideas start out as "wouldn't it be cool", which is what edison thought up. wouldn't it be cool if people could use electricity for light?
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At what point did I reject the idea only because it was a "would be cool" idea? I picked at the idea's validity because it didn't have any substance past that factor. That simple. It doesn't make my opinion absolute or make me ignore the discussion (that's why I'm in it), but until you can present something informed enough or well laid out, you're going to have a hard time changing it. That's it. And because I doubt the effort necessary to put in to elaborating the idea will come into fruition, you see a bunny pop up on the thread.
| Mandor wrote: |
| It just seems like you're giving the standard " Your ideas aren't elaborated fully. For what you're trying to say you need to draft a complete idea to submit so we can pick at that, but "make a dex based fighter type" won't fly. ", in response to something that was never intended to be considered and go straight into the game. It was just an idea, not an actual theoretical proposition based on stringent application of scientific method to eliminate bias and so forth. If someone else finds anything interesting enough about it that it sparks some idea in their mind they can work with, great. |
It is a standard response (and only when valid) because if you aren't willing to draft out the idea via argument + solution, why should Dav put in 20 hours just to implement it? Notice I said "willing", not "already drawn out". To say the idea wasn't meant to be considered makes no sense. I would hope you only come up with ideas on this forum to go into the game. People tend to talk just because they like to so they may throw things out there from time to time for the heck of it. Personally, I take ideas rather serious so I would hope for some form of seriousness (in effort) from the one with the idea. So to shrug off my response as being standard or indifferent is off base.
And Mandor, mind stopping with your side campaign? "Eh, wait, we already have that as a private forum for "select" members." That remark has nothing to do with Ergorion's idea (I've seen these same shots fired in other threads) and you're just attacking your own community members in the process who only have an informed interest of the game at heart and/or well represent certain levels of player stages. That's it. You're acting like it's plotting against you. It's not. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 1:56 am Post subject: |
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where did that come from? You stated you dont like the "wouldn't it be cool" suggestions that are thrown out for everyone else to build from the ground up. You stated that you don't like ideas that are just thrown out there, and that you only give the standard response to ideas that you feel people aren't willing to make up.
| Quote: |
| To say the idea wasn't meant to be considered makes no sense. I would hope you only come up with ideas on this forum to go into the game. People tend to talk just because they like to so they may throw things out there from time to time for the heck of it. Personally, I take ideas rather serious |
I was inspired to the thought through reading the ideas of what others had suggested previously. so I gave it as feedback to the original people as well as people who might discover something themselves by seeing the idea and coupling that with their own knowledge and so on. thats why it wasn't a "serious" idea.
It was attempt at group effort and participating in a community to spread ideas and maybe come up with something together.
| Quote: |
| You're acting like it's plotting against you. It's not. |
Thats a little paranoid to say the least. And it was about my idea of splitting Ideas and Suggestions apart so we could have two places, one for simple ideas, one for finalized or finished ideas that are meant to be taken seriously. I want to see everyone who wants to participate able to do that, and also it stymies the spreading of ideas and understanding of the game by hiding it in a place where only half the people that play can look. If people could read what others are posting as "serious" parts of the game, they could learn the game quicker, come up with ideas on their own that come closer to the mark, and there would be an exponential increase in understanding and ability to help the game along. I don't see why thats so god awful. The fact is that I considered from the viewpoint of others, because I thought it'd be a decent idea as well, to stop this kind of thread derailment happening, but I saw it from the viewpoint of outsiders who voiced their concerns and changed my mind about it. Haven't you considered looking from my viewpoint? It doesn't sound like it.
Can we get this thread back on track now? that should probably mean no more posts unless someone comes along with something profound. |
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Erlwith
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1626
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:11 am Post subject: |
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The whole logic that you won't learn, or won't learn as easily because of the emissary forum is just horseshit obviously. Everyone here so far has done it, and most people repost questions that have been answered 20 times already without using the search function. If you want to learn more about AR you need look no further than the search feature. How many people review the combat modules before asking questions like "when should I use bash?" I'm not saying anyone who asks a question is immediately stupid, but often times the information is already out there.
I wasn't for the forum at first, but this string is living proof, yes, a forum where stupid shit doesn't get posted and thus flamed and thus a war ensues (see this thread uggh)- would be better for game changes, and much easier to sift through with easier discussion. Lets hide emissaries, make the forum invis and move on already. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| well you're entitled to your dumbass opinion derived from ignoring half of the post, twisting and taking out of context the rest, and generally turning into something it wasn't. /golfclap. |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:15 am Post subject: |
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I suggest an additional layer. |
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Nyub101
Emissary
Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Davairus, hahahah. Outstanding. How did you get that picture of me?!  |
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Erlwith
Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 1626
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Actually I was responding to your sig which you have since removed. |
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gomer
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 162
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Davairus wrote: |
I suggest an additional layer. |
He needs to be careful, pretty soon his beard and chest hair are gonna connect... then its all down hill from there. |
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Mandor
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 794
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Erlwith wrote: |
| Actually I was responding to your sig which you have since removed. |
actually it was removed and blocked by some scumbag. |
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Davairus
Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10351
Location: 0x0000
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| Posted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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First of all, there is the matter of your "ban" from the game. Resatimm had banned a player for a good reason - you were affected, claimed to be innocent. There was no proof of that. I took your word for it, even after your spiteful mud review that defamed me in public over halfling thief roleplay, because the plain fact was I didn't really care. I was able to successfully defend myself there, and I did that and moved on. Resatimm didn't back down on that ban - I pulled rank so that you could play. I did that because I believed you were just ignorant. Pasting who lists in the IRC chat, which unfortunately for you is actually inhabited by mature (mostly) gamers who have no interest in seeing that. Whoever did that, was doing it to be disrespectful. And what you have just posted exemplifies that.
Innocent or not, I've been watching your infantile conduct on the forums since that ban was undone. You have shown yourself to be an inflammatory forum poster - you've vexed some of our longest-serving players so much, that they have taken the extraordinarily rare measure of banning you from their own unofficial forum space. I think a lot of players are tired of you, and I'm now in that camp with them. I believe that you are capable of doing that who-list paste now. After the things you said about Vanisse, I'm sure you are a small-minded person with a lot of anger to vent. Well you're going to have to find another outlet for that.
I don't hear of any characters from you that are worth anything... it seems like since you've been "back", you've just continued your anti-social behaviour on our forum. This IS "the game" for you, being the perpetual thorn in the forum's side. It hasn't shown any sign of abating after people have tried to reason with you, and then gotten annoyed with you. I know I speak for the vast majority of us when I say we just want to play the game for a day without having to read your incessant whining.
You've built yourself a concrete overcoat and jumped into the ocean with it.... I'm not going to try salvaging it anymore. Take your unique personality elsewhere. You'll find plenty of muds desperate enough for players to want it. |
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Vhrael
Immortal
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
Posts: 1085
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Davairus wrote: |
| I know I speak for the vast majority of us when I say we just want to play the game for a day without having to read your incessant whining. |
*thrusting hand into the air*
Thank God... |
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