A question about damage

[kieros]

a dagger
Object 'long curved dagger' is type weapon, material metal.
Extra flags: none.
Weight is 4 lbs, value is 40, level is 33.
Weapon type is dagger.
Damage is 6-30 (average 1.

a hunter's knife
Object 'hunter's knife' is type weapon, material steel.
Extra flags: none.
Weight is 6, value is 2000, level is 30.
Weapon type is dagger.
Damage is 4d8 (average 1.

Ok this is something that I have always wondered. Are all weapons that are the same average do the same damage? In this case one dagger is 6-30 what does that mean the other is 4d8 what does that mean.... If someone could explain that I would feel more complete thank you

[kieros]

btw I dunno why there is a smiley face where the 8 should be but both daggers are average eighteen

[Xerties]

4d8 is a reference to D&D, which is what most muds are based on. It means that the damage dealt by the weapon is calculated by rolling 4 eight sided dice.

[kieros]

hmm i get it so 8-32 is the 4d8 so the knife is better

[dead]

[Olyn]

[Dogran]

Your Damage roll makes you more likely to hit the higher end of the weapons no?

[Nyub101]

I've noticed that some weapons show 4d4 and some 4-21 (random numbers placed here for example). Now I was wondering, for sake of consistancy, are the weapons eventually all going to be the d&d show or the simple show(4d4 Vs. 4-21)? I know how to read both, it's just one of my little tid bits of curiosity coming out. Reason I ask is that it seems most old weapons have d&d style damage and the newer weapons do not.

[Mandor]

if something is 4-20, it has 4 dice, since 1 is the minimum, and these dice are 5 sided.

if its 1-20, its 1 dice and 20 sided.

the average is .5 higher for the 4-20, and if it works like oldschool it probably gets rounded down.

because of the number of rolls, you have a lower probability of getting extreme ends of damage with the 4 dice, wheras the probability of getting extreme ends or somewhere in the middle with the 20 sided is equal.

I'd say the damage should be 4dwhatever, instead of 4-10, because not a lot of people would understand the concept without knowing a little about it.

[divsky]

I was going to point out what Mandor said. The more die that are involved the more consistent the damage will be. 5d6 damage will be far more consistent then 5-30 damage, which would vary in damage more wildly.

Although they kind of even out once you attach the damroll to the number.

[Vhrael]

For those that haven't played D&D or another d20 dice-based system...

Anytime you see an "x d y" syntax (like 4d8, for example), it means "x number of rolls of dice of type y," where y is the number of sides on the dice. The typical dice that most people are accustomed to in real-life (from Yahtzee, Monopoly, craps, etc.) have six sides, thus those dice are called "d6" dice.

Example:
4d8 = 4 dice of type 8 (an 8-sided dice can be rolled to show a result of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 or 8).

So if you roll a d8 dice 4 times, you could end up with any result from a 4 (1+1+1+1) up to a max of 32 (8+8+8+8), or any combination therein. Hence the damage range is 4-32 for a 4d8. The average is computed by taking the mean of any rolls, which in this case would be 18 (4+4+5+5).

In your first posting, you mention the difference between a 6-30 damage range (which is a 6d5 roll range), and a 4-32 damage range (4d8). Anytime you have more dice involved (6 versus 4 in this case) your *MINIMUM* damage rolled will always be higher (in this case, assuming you roll all 1's, 6 > 4), but if the average is the same I'd probably take the one with more dice being rolled to guarantee a higher minimum.

I'm sure there's a reason to argue taking the one with a higher max damage, but if the random number generator didn't like me, I'd rather have the highest low-end damage possible, all other things being the same.

[Davairus]

A ways to illustrate the concept from DND is the series of "cure" spells:

Level 1 cure light: 1d5, 10 mana
Level 2 cure moderate: 2d5, 15 mana
Level 3 cure serious: 3d5, 20 mana

Results get more predictable as the amount of rolls is increased, it isn't just a matter of increasing the healing. For e.g. in "2d6", there are more combinations to make 7 than any other outcome.

A while ago I decided showing the dice was confusing to players.. but showing the range (which it is) isn't the entire story.

[kento]

Given that several weapons with the same damage range can have multiple die combinations, for strategetic purposes it would be better to show the die combinations '4d6' along with the damage range '4-24'.

Though I don't know that in the end it actually would matter enough in the end to go through all the work to do that.

[Olyn]

Since the given damage roll only ever uses one type of die and has no modifiers when the range is shown, there's only one possible set of dice. 3d13 is the only way to get 3-39, 4d6 is the only way to get 4-24 etc.

[Davairus]

^in other words just divide the max value by the min and you get the dice rolls, the min is the sides.

[Mandor]

are you sure it isnt the number of sides are what you get when you divide the max by the min, and the min is the number of dice?

cause the way you put it, sounds like it would be 13 dice with 3 sides.

[Davairus]

Right, I translated it backwards again. That's why I've said its confusing. Min/Max damage isn't particularly important to know in AR at the moment anyway, since there isn't any skills taking the max value of your weapon. Although this could be changed. Were that to be changed, this would be worth worrying about. Neither are dicerolls really worth worrying about. Right now, you just need to know the ave dam. Swing the weapon to see if its consistent or not.

[Olyn]

Take a given set of dice where n = the number of dice being rolled and s = the number of sides on each die. For example, if a weapon rolls 4d8 (four eight-sided dice are rolled), n = 4 and s =8. To find the minimum roll, you multiply the lowest possible result on each die by the number of dice rolled. Since every die's lowest roll is 1, the minimum value will equal n. To find the maximum roll, multiply the highest possible result on each die by the total number of dice rolled. Since every die's maximum roll is equal to the number of sides, the maximum value will equal n * s. To find the average damage, take (1+s)/2 to determine the average roll of each die and multiply that by the total number of dice rolled. So, average damage of a weapon is n[(1+s)/2]. I noticed in the case that the average damage is a fraction (only when n is odd AND s is even) the id in game rounds the average down, showing a weapon with average 22.5 as average 22.

To summarize:
n = number of dice, s = number of sides on each die
minimum damage = n
maximum damage = n * s
average damage = n[(1+s)/2]