hit/damroll

[reiwan]

I've had this question bouncing around in my head for some time now, but have held off from posting it because it may be thought of asking a too in-depth question regarding the mud's mechanics. However the more I thought about it, the more I'm hoping perhaps other people are wondering the same thing and someone could shed some light on how these 2 stats play a roll in combat. Most specifically, I've had a hard time deciding to take the weapon that has more avg dam, but less damroll than my previous, for example say a 18 avg 1/1 vs a 16 avg 3/3, and so on. So my question's are this:

- Does hitroll effect the number of attacks / round you have say if you're a warrior, does a higher hitroll get you more hits / round, or does it only effect the roll determining if you hit or not.

- As for damroll, what is a good rule of thumb to use when figuring out if you should take that higher average damage weapon, as opposed to keeping the higher damroll modifier weapon.

[Resatimm]

The hitroll determines if each hit lands. It does not affect how many attacks per round you have. The skills second, third and fourth attack do that.

The good rule of thumb to use, is that you want a good balance of hit and dam roll. I don't know the specifics because my last fighter was a berserker, so as long as my hitroll was over 20, i sank everything into damroll so when I rage, my hitroll would be buffed through the roof so I would hit all the time anyways.

But then again think of a heavyweight against a fly weight boxer. The fly weight might hit the heavyweight guy 100 times lightly, and the heavyweight connects on 1 out of 100, but it is lights out.

[Eloret]

I don't have a great answer for your average dmg to damroll question but I always try it out on mobs first, seeing which weapon does more damge and that helps a lot.

[Davairus]

the calculation goes roughly like this:

damage = chance to hit * damage per hit
OR
damage per round = chance to hit * damage per hit * attacks per round

chance to hit is improved by hitroll bonus, but NOT level difference other than when the thac0 AC deal causes problems for you, probably luck helps although i'm guessing and won't confirm it, but lucks helping in a lot of places, and then other factors like them having defenses (parry/dodge) lower it, stats and other weapon types /combat style skills give bonuses here too of course, while having weapons like whips/flails raises it more significantly than we often think about.

damage per hit is the easy question to answer.

damage per hit = [ (weapon ave * enhanced damage skill bonus) + damroll bonus ] * vuln bonus/penalty , then lowered by sanctuary, armor/shield/stone skin, etc

both factors are important as you can imagine 3*4*2 is just the same damage as 4*3*2, but figuring out how to optimize that product depends on your race/class, present gear level, etc. for max damage generally train stats and try to use up any bonus stats on your items, however remember that comes at the expense of your max hp in the former case and your vulnerability to overburderning, caltraps type stuff etc in the latter case. if i was a warrior against a mage i would want good hitroll/high ave weapon (i'm riding enhanced damage) and make use of my extra attacks per round to wear some saves, whereas if i was a gnome invoker against a warrior i would just stack damroll as hitroll would be garbage by itself, and compensante for doing less attacks per round by casting some spells and using mana. players have to figure these things out when it comes to fighting each class in turn, and typically nobody really stacks hitroll, but if you were fighting a thief there's no doubts, you'll get mileage out of it, probably more than damroll when considering there's 2 defences for it to conquer, and its good vs anybody with a single defense for that matter. of course when youre levelling damroll is cool looking and the mobs are always dirted/hobbled so hitroll doesnt matter there so much, and damroll is also the quicker way to kill the golems of grimforge and other low level mobs farmed for gambling once you are high level enough. But that isnt the case in pvp, where the only real advantage of damroll has over hitroll is after a sanc drop and its possible to "win the lottery" and do a ton of damage to your opponent all at once, simply due to the unpredictable results of low hitroll/high damage.

you can't always trust mob results because they dont always have two or three defences or even function defensively in the same way as players in the pk range youre in.

[reiwan]

Wow, thanks for the breakdown Dav. I wasnt expecting something that detailed.

[Thorgoth]

yes..this is a wonderful explanation. I've been wondering about how it plays out but it seems to be just a simple math equation. but yeah, thanks for breaking it down.

[Davairus]

Its not all that straight forward.. I only gave you a couple of basics.

[_Clifton_]

i have a hard time buying that damage is a purely additive property.

[Thorgoth]

there is multiplication involved too - that's what "*" means...come on cliffy!

[Mahkan]

Don't forget that hitroll also helps parry. Hitroll isn't a purely offensive stat.

[Vhrael]

[reiwan]

[Davairus]

It (damroll) isnt purely additive, but theres a wide range of values where it behaves approximately like that.

[Davairus]

[Xerties]

Hitroll does not help your parry. I fell for that too. You need to read the helpfile carefully. It says that hitroll is a factor in parry. It is a factor in that your opponents hitroll is a factor in your parry's success. If your opponent has a high hitroll, he'll override your parry. That is the factor that hitroll has in parry. Again, it does not improve your chances to parry, rather it lowers your opponents likelihood of parrying.

[Thorgoth]

oh so hitroll increases your chances of breaking weapon advantage? interesting... i've been wondering about that one too, and here i thought high dex + hitroll warriors were a waste, so i'd always go damage. i always thought the chance to break parry was reliant on strength, but that's only because i think that's how it should work irl.

oh and i gotta give clifton crap every once and a while. i mean as much shit as he gives everyone else i think he deserves a little heat!

[Davairus]

Its situational. Pip, you usually roll people with overwhelming gear anyway, and better gear = WINNAR. That makes the argument moot when a drow ninja guy picks a fight with you feeling confident at 45 hitroll/25 dam while your own gear is probably like 30 hitroll 50 dam before berserking. There's nothing that you need to change.

[Thorgoth]

ha...not as of late...uber eq doesn't do much when you get steamrolled for 300 hp a round..

[Groq]

Just can't be a pussy, jesus pip I thought I taught you better.. btw everyone that reads this I taught him everything I know.. hahah <3 you pip.. yeah i'm drunk a lil