Recent changes (poison, plague, steal, pry).

[Burzuk]

Since there's been some discussion of the topic, I'd like to see where people stand on this issue. This is just a chance for people to collectively and anonymously voice their overall opinion regarding this set of changes.

[Itiggidy]

I hope ppl vote on this. voting is the best way to ensure what you want in the mud. thought its not looking so good for these changes right now... 45% say they didnt like some or all of the changes while only 23% said they liked it.

[Burzuk]

[Louis]

transportation change affected chasing and favored the chaser. poison and thief skill changes more directly affect how thieves are played and maladictive classes are played. the change is more narrow and focused, and isn't as game altering as the transportation changes seemed. thats why i havent voted yet, because i'm still trying to understand the implications.

[theobserver]

Things have remained fairly static for so long that I view ANY change as being positive. I quite like the change to poison though. Makes me curious to see what the 'large reduction in the victim's strength and dex' caused by the poison combined with a ninjas caltraps and nerve does to an opponent

[Burzuk]

Well, I'm trying to avoid the "change for change's sake" syndrome, so I don't really encourage people to wholeheartly embrace new things without taking a critical look at it first. But there are some people who have a knee-jerk reaction in the opposite direction, so I'm guessing that things even out in the end.

Initial reactions are only so useful when gauging changes in any case, as hindsight will prove 20/20 in comparison. Still, I think player reaction can be a useful barometer in many instances.

[GodOfWar]

Since I couldn't hit up the forum before the vote ended I'll just post it on the friggin board.
I'm all for the changes. They bring in a little more realism while adding to the overall balance of the game. Plague now seems to work in a more realistic fashion, though without seeing it do DISMEMBERs and what not, it still technically does physical damage. Especially since you now have to be healed, which makes the cleric and paladin a more important figure in the overall scheme of the game(which is what they're supposed to be in the first place).
Poison has never been a weak substance similar to food poisoning at your local taco bell. Throughout history, poison has been used to cause considerable damage/death and has been a tool for the assassin for a long time. In keeping with the balance of the game, I think the change to poison is more on the realistic side while keeping it from being too powerful of a weapon.

Reading Div's post about stealing while you're talking to your target, I realize that he's right in that respect. And with pry, being able to slip off your victim's ring or something is also viable. Though overall I still agree with the changes to steal/pry.
Maybe steal could only work on gold while the victim is awake, and pry would only work on rings. That way it keeps the realism in an rp sense while limiting the skills to hinder the rambopryers.
Dunno...just a thought.

[divsky]

I voted for the third option. On it's own I do like the changes to poison and plague. I however don't like the implications the changes have on blackjack, strangle, sleep and other such skills, as it upsets a long-held balance of sacrificing regeneration for defense from such skills. If we had some other way to defend against these skills I'd be all for the new poison and plague changes, I think they're great.

I've already stated my opinion on the steal and pry changes, so I don't think I need to explain that.

[GodOfWar]

Defense against blackjack is so retardedly simple that I can't beleive that people aren't thinking of it or mentioning it more often. What do you think the park in Seringale is for? All the surrounding areas??

The solution is simple...If you know that there is an agressive thief in your range....DONT BE A TOWN SQAURE BUNNY! If you're in town, and said thief disappears off your who pk list, bust ass and get to a forest. I don't see any people complaining that a warrior can't see them when they're invisible. Though it's probably harder to get ahold of some detect invis potions than it is to just move into a wooded area.

It seems like you people just like shit too damn easy. It was never meant to be easy to lift someone's crap off his skullcracked body. That's why it's so hard to be a thief. It's meant for the dedicated and skilled. Because as a thief, if you aint got game, YOURE DEAD. That friggin simple. Same as in real life.

Come on people, if you really wanna play your little thiefies, earn some respect and be the last one standing. Use SKILL to get all that shiny shit. And for all you thief/hide/haters, use some FRIGGIN SKILL to keep from getting blackjacked. It wasn't meant to be easy to be a thief ppl. That's why they're not fighters/mages/hell even ninjas. It takes real skill to play one well. So quit complaining and use it for once. Maybe if you make it all the way through, I'll see you in the up and ups and maybe you'll get my respect.

[Mendek]

It can take a sneaking thief to get from either road to where you are in the park and blackjack you. Unless you're ruthlessly spamming where you probably still won't see him comming.

[GodOfWar]

The park was just a small example, you can expand it to the whole of the realms if you wish.

Of course with sneak there's the chance that the thief can sneak up on you from anywhere. That's why moving out of the city is no SURE remedy against a thief or his blackjack, but a tactic to defend against it.

[divsky]

The park in Seringale is going to do absoloutly nothing to protect you from blackjack. Just because they can't hide doesn't mean they can't blackjack. And if you're outside of town, what's it even matter if you see them coming? Even if you attack first, they can just flee and walk back in and blackjack you.

[Phostan]

Uhm. I was just owning some 35 avian thief the a couple weeks ago, by beating the living shit out of him when he tried to follow me west of town. I beat him to the first attack almost everytime, then he'd occassionally land blackjack. Regardless, it's a good time honored strategy. And I'll say this about pry. Being able to dirt kick Nyevon when he faerie fired me, flee, walk back in, pry his whipping tail while he stood there dirt kicked, and walk away a few spaces, and trip him when he didnt even bother putting sanc up because he was so hopping mad, was hilarious. You know how much of a rush I got by walking into a room with two people in my pk range, out near sreyb, both of them awake, and pry their blood encrusted spiked steel bracelet, and whatever that twisty leave bracelet thing is called, and walk away without them noticing was? It was great. I loved prying shit off awake people. Or when I pried Lourn's portable hole off him at MS in front of 3 justices, and had to get and drop all the anti-neutral stuff in the hole automatically, and the Justices just laughed like mad? Stuff like that makes for fond memories. If I ever get a new IP which isnt banned I'll have to try out the changes and see how much it ruins the fun.

[GodOfWar]

[Addreodyn]

Maybe because we don't enjoy playing ninja?

[GodOfWar]

My poor poor gimped ass ninjas. Used to be my favorite class too.

In that case, you should learn to play the other classes better, no? Thieves really aren't much of a problem to a smart player. True, blackjack can be seriously annoying at times, but whining about it is just a cover up for being lazy and not staying alert.

I have personally NEVER had a problem with thieves, because I know to look out for them when they're in my range. And usually, one run in, or even the casual look is enough to discourage them from further encounters.

A smart player can EASILY kill a thief. A smart thief has usually ONE surprise opening before the player is alert to them and they've lost their window of opportunity. True, warriors are very gimped when it comes to dealing with thieves and ninjas, but they can also kill them the fastest, excepting the lucky faerie fog/fire from a necro/illusionist.

[Itiggidy]

I keep pwning ninjas and Im considered a newbie by your guy's standards. I just blackjack steal, steal, steal, (gold mostly) and when they wake up and attack me I dirt them, stay in the fight, disarm BOTH their weaps, and grab em up. and there's drow ninja that auto-sneak but I still pwn. Im just saying ninjas arent the oh so amazing class you guys try and make them out to be.

[GodOfWar]

Those bastards just plain suck

As a ninja, I didn't meet a single thief that pissed me off that I didn't kill. Except for one. Duergar Legion thief. Bastard wielded a giant ass stone club and kept thwacking the shit out of me. Same rank and couldn't kill him. Course, he couldn't kill me either. We just ran around thwacking the shit out of each other getting each other close to death only to disappear and do it all over again. Couldn't assassinate and couldn't get backstabbed, neither of us ever ran around at full health. Got blackjacked a couple times, and strangled him a couple times, got both my dusts off on him once while he was sleeping, and would have killed him but the bastard could run really well blind.
Me too

[Addreodyn]

Actually, I've never had much problem with thieves either (although this may be because I play always play mages, so I don't care too much about my eq). But I still don't understand how you're killing all these thieves so "EASILY". Like I said before, it's not like a thief needs the element of surprise to land a blackjack. And the thief has the ability to escape better than most classes even without hide.

[theobserver]

Decided to start playing again and make my first character in nearly two years only to lose three level 7ish ninjas in two days to JMC not being able to store their names in an alias thanks to file permissions. So urm, Im tired of listening about ninjas and thieves.

But in an attempt to add something to this thread thieves vrs ninjas seem like a pretty fair fight to me and here have an banana