Invoker feedback thread.

[Dogran]

Its not a bug idiot... Its Barrier...

[Smotpoker]

Nadrin read what Dav wrote

Davairus wrote:
The drawbacks are the high mana cost and inability to get out of it.. you should see it fizzle fast because they dont parry with barrier up too..atleast they shouldnt. That is a bug if it is not so.

[Dispater]

[Olyn]

I'll look into barrier this weekend. Move on to other areas of feedback.

[Dispater]

Problem is that with the current "OPness" of barrier, you don't really see people using ice, fire or lightning shields - thus no feedback on them. The idea behind is nifty tho, ice shield is somewhat lacking tho, should be "chance to slow" target or something as it's mainly used against tough warriors and such. With boost on shields i dont think barrier is needed at all. Good players were causing hell with Invokers anyway.

Other than that, flame arrow's dot is somewhat weak as hell, i suppose it's only purpose is to act like faerie fog or faerie fire, to bring out stealthers.

getting disarm from icicile/icestorm would mean that you have to land 4 successful spells. And players just instantly re-wield weapon anyway. Icicle is a waste to use against warriors unless it's a fire giant.

Lightning bolt/storm is strongest tho, the shock and dispel is like creamy cheesepudding!

[Olyn]

Using barrier no longer allows a chance to parry.

[Erlwith]

Some random thoughts here,

I don't like the idea of recycling the barrier spell for invokers.

The only affects I think direct damage spells should have is resistance lowering.

Invokers should use reagants to increase their spell intensity.

Invokers should be able to choose what spells do the most damage with their focus items (staff of flames, wand of fire, etc.)

Hellstream dmg should be increased, as should spell cast time and mana cost.

All other direct dmg spells should be tweaked. For example, icicle does the least dmg bust has the least lag time, fireflame does the most dmg but suffers the highest resistance penalty, lightning bolt does high damage with lower resistance penalty and higher lag time.

If you kill someone with an ice spell you have to unthaw them or wait until they thaw to loot.

Enchant weapon should add an elemental proc vs just 1+/1+.

Give them other spells,
engulf weapon (disarms opponent for 5 seconds),
mystic grasp (roots for 5 seconds, diminishing returns),
fire beacon (single target, works on fire resist, invoker can then cast a
tracking spell to find anyone under the beacon),
maelstrom (aoe spell that persists in the room for a short period, slows
enemies movements as they enter/leave for 1-2 seconds, once per day)

[Dispater]

lolrly?

Erlwith dont you think it's a BIT over the top? 5 sec immobilize with 5 sec disarm with more dmg on hellstream which is already like a spammable backstab w/o health depedency?

[Erlwith]

If I were re-writing the invoker class I'd go a totally different direction entirely. With hellstream I think it should be more of a finisher.

Anyway these ideas weren't meant to have synergy necessarily (thus "some random thoughts here"). I was going more along the line of choices, you choose the right time to use hellstream or risk serious vulnerability, you choose the right attuned element or no ice shield, maelstrom, icicle, etc. Not attuned to fire, no flamearrow, engulf, fire beacon, etc.

[Olyn]

Let's bring the focus of the topic back to feedback on the existing changes.

[Davairus]

Erlwith, these changes were discussed in the committee area, remember? There was a few posts and I cherry picked what I felt like the best ideas.

Hellstream IS a finisher. After you splurge then the spell (and all your other spells) will be resisted. It also has anti-sanc uses which is reasonable.

[Erlwith]

Meh your changes usually have more spice to them. Woot Illusionists get dreamstruck! Only to be struck down by the loss of some nice defense. Woot the circus is awesome! In the you die most of the time there type of way...

[Davairus]

Ok I can see where you are coming from. The changes are not complete yet. These are just the mechanical changes before we slip in the twist that stuns everybody. I wanted to get feedback to make sure that the mechanics are interesting, before we take a huge plunge.

[Dispater]

[Davairus]

It was simply moved off healers onto invokers. Its still a unique spell in the AR world. It just unique to invokers now instead of to healers. It makes more sense there because they have magic-based shields and a magic-immunity shield, and now they also have the complement. Its not the most exciting thing in the world, but there's a consistency to it that I like. I don't think you will see barrier used for much other than just hard turtling vs tons of physical damage. Maybe like one of those 4 man gangbang on your cabal guard situations where its a last resort. Because the spell has a horrible co-efficient on mana loss, its going to empty your mana in like 5 rounds. The good thing about this though is that I know I can just throw away a similar spell we had planned for a different class.

One wonders though why similar complaints about mana shield have never came up, and why healers didnt even use it. (Since it used to allow defense checks.. it doesnt really hurt healers mana much)

[Dispater]

It takes way much more than 5 rounds to deplete a pinnacled invokers mana who has barrier up. And if you ever want to fight a semi-compentent invoker 1v1 you will have no chance if he uses barrier. Sucks to throw Eloret in for an examples all the time, but from what you saw before, he already won with pure damage output against anyone 1v1, now with a semi-godlike defence spell one has no way to beat him in a fair match without uber luck (catching him pants down w/o ward and prot shield).

I don't think it was that much needed for invokers. Invokers already had most defence from mages with steady damage output, while illusionists remain glass cannons without cannons, only able to kill clueless people or those who are not decent fighter classes. Oh and they also need hitroll while invoker can stack shitloads of dmg and outdamage most people with just their weapons...

[Mummy]

Gotta agree with m1co on this one. Barriers seemed a bit over-the-top to me.

[Esivole]

Magic weapons and pwn?

[Dispater]

[Esivole]

cast cancel

sanc falls
armor falls
shld falls
detect falls
protective shield falls


you notice barrier isn't on there right? that would be because it isn't a guaranteed cancel, none of them are. so, while the invoker is fumbling around and gimping himself with cancel, and lets assume the actually get mana shield up. any competent player will just switch back to physical weapons and pwn. it just takes competence.

you mention eloret being perfectly geared and overpowered, but you don't mention rariwn for being perfectly geared and overpowered. is that because rariwn isn't an invoker? just saying. In general we don't have any pinnacled evils with a set on them, that would invade/abduct/pwn eloret or rariwn.

(yes I am aware this is an invoker thread and you wouldn't mention rariwn due to that)