Protection, Oath, and rotdeath

[Mikoos]

Protection and oath just need to be thrown out the window. We should just make knights blood thirsty witch burners who go around destroying all evil. Legions should be going around destroying everything. The reason I say this is because I suck at pking. I'll admit it. I'm two people from being in last place in the ratings. There's nothing worse than seeing a protected standing in front of you talking about how awesome they are and you can't fight them. If they want to role play, maybe they can become a legionairre's slave, or be constantly on the run, staying behind the knights whenever possible. and it's not like we don't roleplay pk-wise.

On to rotdeath on gambled gear...whoever thought of this needs to be drug out onto the streets, and then hung, drawn and quartered. There's nothing worse than spending 1.5 million coins for a good item (+4 hit or dam) and then mowed down a few minutes later and watch it rot before your very eyes. it's not like players can't loot corpses or sacrifice items...so why have rotdeath? I view gambled gear as the only way to make 'the jump' equipment wise to take on pip-like players and having your gear rot before you are built up enough..is a very annoying feature of the game. Winter trips are fun, personally I don't like relying on groups of people to build my character equipment-wise, but they can be fun. I might try to do that as soon as I can find a group to rank to 50 with.

[Davairus]

Regarding first point, both systems have their pro's and con's. New system at least you get a reason given for being sacked and full looted. I think I preferred it the other way myself but we don't hear as much complaints this way. Also, not sure about oath, but there have been a lot of stooge protected character that made trouble for Knights. They provided a contract stream for Legion to devour if nothing else. Why dont you just try joining Legion..?

For second point, I think that only applies to the "wild" gambled items.... right?

[Esivole]

[Ergorion]

I definitely agree that protection and oath can be aggravating at times. It becomes more of a problem when one of the cabals has a dominant control over the lands when everyone starts oathing or purchasing protection depending on who's in power.

At the same time, I do think it serves a purpose. It gives Heralds and Mystics the option for the safety that should come with their positions and it gives newbies the chance to avoid the wrath of caballed players and fight against uncaballed people who may be closer to their skill level.

Protection also does result in contracts for Legions to collect and with protection expiring weekly, gives them more cabal funds as individuals have to keep re-purchasing. Oath doesn't give lightwalkers any perks really, I think fewer people in general choose to take the oath if they're interested in pk at all because it cuts out a huge population of eligible targets whereas individuals under protection can still attack most of the playerbase.

In terms of rotdeath items, there's a simple solution if you don't like your items poofing--don't buy rotdeath items. The point behind rotdeath gambled items is that they are cheaper than their longevitous counterparts, so you can get a better rotdeath item with less effort than you can a long-standing one. Plus, if you die with an awesome rotdeath item, there is no way for your killer to use that against you in the future.

[Mikoos]

[Ceridwel]

[Davairus]

The wild items are rotdeath because:

A) They are cheaper to buy (not just lower price.. favorable rolls so less attempts before payoff).
B) They require "chaotic" which has the lightest restrictions on their pk'ing, so there's a need for an additional drawback for dying.
C) And this is true for other chaotic-only items.. the fact they can be looted and used by the opposite alignment (e.g. knight kills legion, starts using his gear) is pretty unsavory. We want to curb that with gambled loot.

You have plenty other options.. evermore is simply better anyway, forging items is slow but consistent, some gambler in underworld? Or get some rares. The point being, its fine. Supplement your gear with it, don't try to depend on wild suits.


For protection, I'm not so sure you guys have really the experience to tell that we're better off with it than without, but as a refresher, pre-protection the average lifespan of a newly inducted Legion was two weeks. That's two weeks from induction until rage delete. The thing is, as I was saying, you have other players acting as Legion's stooges, protecteds are almost like a coterie in that regard. If someone is obviously just buying it to hide from pk'ing, what's the problem? Revoke it, and murder him. That's what its for. If you don't have the rank to revoke, then this is simply a patience issue.

[Ergorion]

Also, if the "good" rares aren't in, you can grab some of the high level rares that are around and imbue them as a cheaper form of gambling.

[Ozaru]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I agree with what mostly everyone is saying there really aren't issues with protection or oath. Most people at 50 that are active are looking to pk. The great thing about protection is legion doesn't really face coffer issues generally speaking. 20k for an applicant, 20k for protection most cabals when ever I join them, coffers are so low its terrible. Usually I just end up depositing my own money just to buy scrolls or defenders.

What I would like to see is more players actually attacking justices and less hiding in town. The fear to lose eq shouldn't ever cross the mind of a cabaled player or even to finish a kill for that matter. What would be interesting to see with this change is removing the special guard from the equation at lvl 50. The only cabal that really gets any pk benefits is keepers provided that person is insanely geared, all other cabals you pretty much fight with the skills you inherit.

[Esivole]

[kammkala6]

Just revoke every protection you see. People will stop buying it, atleast until you delete. More targets instantly.

[Ergorion]

[Dogran]

Dav stated that he wanted Justice (special guards) there for a reason. The members of justice are there for a few reason.

1. Protect Newbies. After all Tiqa and Iolo have to have a place to go right?

2. Protect Heralds and Mystics, and add another Cabal dynamic to the game that way you don't just have me good you evil scenarios, you have other things two.

3. It just makes sense to have lawman, and people to hunt bountied criminals. Every society has its own form of Police, or law enforcement. As a civilian I can buy any class 1 firearm I want basically. Law enforcement(at least here) have their sidearm, (handgun of some sort) a Riot shotgun, and usually a full auto (like an M4) in their trunk. I remember recently reading in the newspaper about a ft worth Police officer leaving his loaded full auto M4 sitting on the trunk of his squad car while going into a bank or something. (oops?) Not to mention police officers get special training that most people usually can't get.

4. Its another avenue of rp, and they put a twist in it allowing evil justices instead of forcing it to be a purely neutral cabal. Makes total sense, if you have seen things like Police officers and criminals psych reports being nearly identical. Police officers just have permission to act that way rofl.

Rant done.

(ps, Tiqa, Iolo, I didn't mean it I still love you both)

[Dogran]

As to main topic, you can still get non wild, non rotdeath gambled armor for every slot. You just have to know where to find it and have to be willing to pay the extra cost. The wild rotdeath stuff gets you stronger gambleds for a cheaper price then otherwise. If you die a lot, you should never buy rotdeath gear. At 50 you can even buy conquest stuff which is really decent (it does rotdeath) but you buy a certain type and the stats are all the same so its not like your spending a million gold to get an entire suit.

[Ozaru]

I don't think anyone has a problem with the existence of a justice cabal, but why do justices get a helping hand to kill someone in their pk. No other cabal gets a 2v1 advantage like that. It makes sense to have guards when the justice can't fight them, but it should be to the level of the criminal. Personally when I have had to kill a justice at 50, I had no problem doing it, but rangers are great for that kind of a fight. Other classes, not so much.

As far as newbs getting picked off, you don't earn any respect for killing less skilled players and we all know who they are instantly once the fight begins. Protection and oath really does do the intended purpose of helping newbs get to 50 and learn without getting mowed every chance someone gets the itch to pad their record. But the abuse of it comes from players that are decked out and don't want to fight anyone, or they can choose their fights when they feel like it. That is the obvious problem.

[Dogran]

Dav stated in a post (couldn't find it to quote) that Special guards were the way they were and would stay that was so that newbs had a safe haven. To promote a place where no matter what they could be safe. Special guards are OP on purpose to ensure that even an incompetent justice stands a decent chance against killing wanted/bountied criminals to protect said new players so they don't just get killed over and over again and stop playing. Thats the biggest reason for their OPness. Now take Lorana. Lorana was the most difficult criminal I ever had to face as a Justice and ensnare/special guard did nothing for me. In the end it took turning her trap against her (two on one in winter with ensnare and double special guard) to kill her. After that it was cheese because she was naked. No one else I can name I ever had any trouble with once they were flagged because it was just ensnare smash. Take Ikaork since Deadzero mentioned him here. Him and Graulog were both wanted/bountied in town when I logged in one day. I slaughtered them both in under 5 minutes, but then later on (different day) I actually lost to Ikaork in a head to head fight. Means a lot. Justices aren't meant to be easy kills by wanteds, still there are certain classes who excel at that. Like Eidren wasn't he bountied for a month or so? I think it was Ruch that killed him in the end too so not a special guard.

[Esivole]

Yes, newbs need a safe haven. That being said, I don't think that newbs need two avenues of save havens. by adding protection/oath it partially did away with the need for justices. Imagine if legion and knight actually had people to fight in town (and were actually willing to do it.) Chaos ensues, you have more wanted people, in turn, more justices, more fighting, more fun.

people who do what I said earlier. Log off or sit in guild at first time of trouble. I also want to point out that it isn't just newbs or under equipped players sitting in guilds, if anything it is quite the opposite. I have had more enemies that are decked/powerful sit in guild so that to fight them you have to fight the guild guardian too and, incase you haven't noticed, guild guardians are stout mofos.

as a side not, I should point out that being wanted is not just fighting the justice and a leet guard, you have tons of mobs all over thera that autoattack you, slowing you down, injuring you, annoying you. You can't buy anything of course, no arrows, no javelins, no gambling, so on. it is a massive self fucking to get wanted intentionally these days.

[Dogran]

Well, A solution of making Legion and Knights outlaws was suggested. Would force pk with Justice, and take away their protection in town. Would create a lot more chaos.

[Erlwith]

I've said getting wanted flag is a waste of energy for the most part for all the reasons stated. Justice isn't built on even ground so as the player base numbers fluctuate and player trends change their cabal has to be changing also. With low player numbers justice doesn't need to maintain all of their advantages. Otherwise the cabal members just get bored and no one wants to play with them.

[Esivole]