High Dex/Wis/Int vs High Str/Con

[kento]

The change where strength affects hitroll and damroll both, for almost all weapons and classes. I feel like this change, besides not being logical, as dexterity is the determining factor in accuracy of movement, it is also a major disadvantage to high dex races, particularly if it's a non dodging class, as they get nothing but an ac boost, which is mediocre at fifty.

[Fireballe2]

[Olyn]

I'm curious if you noticed that 7 of the top 10 killers on the player page are high dex characters. Only one of them has dirt/dodge.

[Fireballe2]

Justice, Justice, necro, human pal, storm warrior, drow ninja (we've already seen ygin), 2 half elf pals, and the only odd one out is a drow dk that's in Legion, except for possible confine splatfests with unholy strength spam. Even then this one was bumped from their number 1 spot from a few months ago for justices and a necro.

[Fireballe2]

dex isn't just for dirt kick whoring. It's also meant to buff hitroll in contrast to strength buffing damroll for high str races.

...okay. Guys, trust me on this. Roll giants from now on. They are ridiculously buff now.


| Unaffiliated, 17 years old (0 hours). |
| |
| Race: Fire Hometown: Seringale Health: 50/50 |
| Sex: Male Alignment: Evil Mana: 100/100 |
| Class: Warrior Ethos: Neutral Move: 94/100 |
\ -------------------------------------------/
| |
| Streng: 25 (25+0) Rating: n/a Weight: 17/502 |
| Intell: 15 (15+0) Level: 1 Pracs: 5 |
| Wisdom: 14 (14+0) Exp tnl: 1809 Trains: 2 |
| Dexter: 16 (16+0) Quests: 0/0 Items: 5/31 |
| Consti: 21 (21+0) Gold: 200 Wimpy: 0 hp |
| Luck: Changing Hunger: [*****] Thirst: [*****] |
| |
| Condition: In prime health |
------------------------------------------ \
/ |
| Armor Vs Pierce: -70 Saving Throws |
| Hitroll: 6 Vs Bash: -70 Afflictive: 40 |
| Damroll: 5 Vs Slash: -70 Maledictive: 40 |
| Vs Magic: -81 Mental: 40 |
\==========================================================-/

| Unaffiliated, 17 years old (0 hours). |
| |
| Race: Drow Hometown: Seringale Health: 20/20 |
| Sex: Male Alignment: Evil Mana: 150/150 |
| Class: Warrior Ethos: Neutral Move: 98/100 |
\ -------------------------------------------/
| |
| Streng: 18 (18+0) Rating: n/a Weight: 12/202 |
| Intell: 18 (18+0) Level: 1 Pracs: 5 |
| Wisdom: 18 (18+0) Exp tnl: 1896 Trains: 3 |
| Dexter: 21 (21+0) Quests: 0/0 Items: 5/35 |
| Consti: 16 (16+0) Gold: 200 Wimpy: 0 hp |
| Luck: Changing Hunger: [*****] Thirst: [*****] |
| |
| Condition: In prime health |
------------------------------------------ \
/ |
| Armor Vs Pierce: -25 Saving Throws |
| Hitroll: 3 Vs Bash: -25 Afflictive: 40 |
| Damroll: 2 Vs Slash: -25 Maledictive: 40 |
| Vs Magic: -36 Mental: 40 |
\==========================================================-/

[Fireballe2]

Oops, forgot to boost dexto max.

and yet, there's no change..

| |
| Race: Drow Hometown: Seringale Health: 20/20 |
| Sex: Male Alignment: Evil Mana: 150/150 |
| Class: Warrior Ethos: Neutral Move: 100/100 |
\ -------------------------------------------/
| |
| Streng: 18 (18+0) Rating: n/a Weight: 12/202 |
| Intell: 21 (21+0) Level: 1 Pracs: 5 |
| Wisdom: 18 (18+0) Exp tnl: 1901 Trains: 0 |
| Dexter: 24 (24+0) Quests: 0/0 Items: 5/38 |
| Consti: 16 (16+0) Gold: 200 Wimpy: 0 hp |
| Luck: Changing Hunger: [*****] Thirst: [*****] |
| |
| Condition: In prime health |
------------------------------------------ \
/ |
| Armor Vs Pierce: 20 Saving Throws |
| Hitroll: 3 Vs Bash: 20 Afflictive: 40 |
| Damroll: 2 Vs Slash: 20 Maledictive: 40 |
| Vs Magic: 9 Mental: 40 |
\==========================================================-/


A serious WTF is in order here. When did giants EVER need a buff like this? They've always been ultra competitive and "giant warrior of DOOM" status.

[Nycticora]

play one if you think so

if you can overcome the mental/ice/wood vuln you deserve some damroll

[Fireballe2]

I remember when there was only ice/wood and mental got put in and became incredibly op for damage.

I'd have to ask why effigies weren't toned down as a simple measure instead of doing a large game change like buffing hitroll on giants tremendously.

just look at the level 1 difference. 6h and 5d for a giant. 3h and 2d for a drow.

[Fireballe2]

edit: and yes, the hitroll boost from strength scales with levels just like the damroll.

[Davairus]

I am going to push back on this because the AC bonus from dex is the logical counterbalance to additional damage from strength, and i already made exceptions. Like bows. I like it that way. If dex is underwhelming, we can do something else with it.

[Fireballe2]

I thought drow and elf being owned by wielded material vulns was the natural counterbalance to AC.

[Fireballe2]

or the fact that they have less health. Or the fact that they have the worst parry and shield blocks in the game. or...

[Hrimoyan]

[Fireballe2]

naked level 1s yes.

Its only based on dex. And that's a reduction of 4.5% damage for the drow, while it has 40% of the health of a fire giant.

so yeah.

[Fireballe2]

Olyn, I forgot to mention that Rheloth is an entirely twinked out character. The most a drow dk gets on average for hp is between 620-680. He has 800 hp.

[Miley]

[Rothak]

^^^ +1

[Mummy]

I don't see why Fireballe2 is taking as much flak as he is... he seems to have some legitimate points to me.

[Faelon]

Based on 2 level 1 characters. As for me, I still prefer high dex warriors for dirt kick and dodge.

[Fireballe2]

Well, first of all, Ive had enough dks to get a feel for the average hps.

Miley doesn't seem to know what I mean, so I should explain that hp gains are randomly determined. As in, every level could give you 10 hp or 14 hp, or any variation. I think I recall sometimes getting 9 hp for drow dk, but I'm not sure. So when Rheloth posts logs of being 800 hp, I find that highly ridiculous in terms of gains. That's amazing, and with an extra ~150 hp (doubled by sanc), I would've done significantly more body counts. My dks were gimps compared to Rheloth in every sense of the word. I'm not bagging on the randomized system, but people often forget that luck of dice rolls plays a big ass role in hp/mana gains, and thus helps determine a star or dud character.

As to taking flak from others, I think they made some reasonable points, but I don't see why giants suddenly need hitroll and I don't believe the sample size of picking all these different classes that are mostly in justice or power combos or some mix of power/cabal combo is relevant. Maybe those are all entirely the best players here as well, which would further discredit the idea that high dex races are dominant.

We know drow ninja can be dominant, however, all those other race/class combos are once-in-a-blue-moon types, unless they happen to be in justice. a drow dk with 800 hp in justice with a special guard is just lol. It could be any dk in legion, and a good body count would ensue from the various cabal ground or legion powers combined with unholy strength. Conversely, the paladins are all human or half-elf. Neither of those are high dex, but maybe it's small sample size. Let's see some dominant elf pals on the list.

I just rarely to never see high dex races in warriors and/or other classes in uncaballed hoarding the top 10 positions. Usually they're midrange or low range rating positions. So I don't understand the reasoning behind the change.