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AC of the Winter Gear

 
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Olyn
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Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 3172
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:58 pm    Post subject: AC of the Winter Gear

Davairus and I were discussing the AC of some of the Winter eq and wanted to hear your feedback. As an example, here's the current id on a couple of high end pieces:

Code:
Object 'belt segmented crimson scales' is type armor, material dragon.
Extra_flags: glow no_locate.
Made to be worn around the waist.
Weight is 2 lbs, value is 1, level is 50.
Armor class is 20 pierce, 22 bash, 17 slash, and 0 vs. magic.
Armor type is heavy.
Affects save vs spell by -2.
Affects hitroll by 2.
Affects damroll by 2.
Unique item.


Code:
Object 'sleeves striped satin tiger stripes' is type armor, material satin.
Extra_flags: hum.
Made to be worn on the arms.
Weight is 1 lbs, value is 2, level is 50.
Armor class is 10 pierce, 10 bash, 10 slash, and 0 vs. magic.
Armor type is light.
Affects health by 10.
Affects damroll by 3.
Affects strength by 1.
Rare item.


Both offer very good hit/dam type stats. The belt has a penalty to saves but high ac, and the sleeves have average ac. Both have 0 ac against magic, as do many of the better rares in winter. Do you guys see gear like this as glass cannon eq and, if so, are we better off spreading the ac deficiency out a to something like 8 8 8 5 on the sleeves? Or do you think AC should not be a drawback on these types of items? No drawbacks? Different drawbacks? Let us know what you think.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 9661
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:02 am    Post subject:

I'm not saying we should, but knowing that Winter is a chaotic-themed realm, makes sense instead of just "glass cannon" we could have a bunch of this eq also improve the players dodge or parry chance by 1%. That way this armor is definitely providing greater defensive benefit but at a risk of getting screwed by the RNG. Seems right for chaotic-themed gear to me.
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
Posts: 455

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:27 am    Post subject:

I'll get back to you guys. I have seen slow mess AC up, but didn't log it.
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Xenyar
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Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 385

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:48 pm    Post subject:

They are great pieces that have no ac on magic. Just leave them alone.

Hard disagree to adding %1 parry/dodge bonus to equipment.
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Bladefury



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:10 pm    Post subject:

i agree with xenyar can yall just leave what is around the way it is. WORK ON ADDING NEW SHIT. or something or make a new tier of winter that is above winter cause truthfully winter has become pretty DO-ABLE. make like a no joke place where you die you explode armor scatters with super fucking awesome shit at the end. idk yall keep tweaking shit that we aint even complaining about.
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Vevier
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 6:00 pm    Post subject:

Apocalypse incoming: I agree with Bladefurry.
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Resatimm
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Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 927

PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:56 pm    Post subject:

Haha I agree with bf and Vev.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:31 am    Post subject:

Well don't be too hasty. if you take the ice armor for example, which is like 25 25 25 0, that's multiplied by four for a chest slot. Which would take it to 100 100 10 0. At that level of AC you're getting 1% damage reduction from it, and no protection from magic. That kinda hurts, unless you're magic resistant by some other means (dwarf/halfling etc). It absolutely rubbish for giants. What Olyn proposed seemed like it'd sink because it takes away the big numbers that make the Winter eq appealing. But, if it were 25/25/25/25, add the 1% reduce chance to dodge, now its like ok, there's balance here, and we could stick an actual hit/dam on this ice armor too. As a giant your dodge sucks anyway so you kinda dont care about the penalty versus significant magic AC, and you enjoy smaller consistent damage instead of RNG defenses. Go look at some logs on the logboard and you will see that RNG mattering. Stuff that reduces the chance of being screwed by the RNG is useful. I'll probably add this stat to zodiac island.
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Olyn
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 1:40 pm    Post subject:

I have a couple of issues with the 0 magic ac. First, we're talking about nearly every armor in winter, even the crappy stuff on speedbump mobs. Second, how can it be that an item like the lvl 50 tiger sleeves offers no basic protection from magic attacks when stuff like sub-issue sleeves and elbow pads offers at least a little? For shadows and monks, who don't have the option of using decent medium or heavy armor instead, our fairly small selection of endgame light armor is actually inferior to an above average gambled hit/dam roll because of that inherent flaw. We're talking about classes that have a hard time getting to 200 physical/120 magic ac when they're well-geared.

I don't see these winter items as glass cannon gear, I see them as our top tier gear. The suggestions about drawbacks in my original post were proposed compromises since Davairus likes them as glass cannon items. I'd prefer the tiger sleeves at 10 10 10 8, the segmented belt at 20 22 17 10, and the ice armor 25 25 25 25 with their affects left the same. Spend an hour fixing a building misstep from back in the day and move on.
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Kalist19
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Joined: 19 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:06 pm    Post subject:

Just slap some magic AC onto the winter stuff and move on with your lives. I don’t think adding magic AC to stuff that is supposed to be top tier/endgame eq is going to suddenly make it all incredibly OP and break the game.
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Resatimm
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:13 pm    Post subject:

There should be a winter piece that casts boneshatter.

It can be 0ac magic.

I shatter your skull!
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:45 am    Post subject:

Why is magic always zero anyway?
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Bladefury



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 482

PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:06 pm    Post subject:

Yea the whole of this post is screaming add some mag ac move on to something we all want. Like super endgame area. I want turds coming out of my pants with at least 4 other people turding with me. i don't even want an invoker to be able to solo it. each room should have a mix of mag/physical damage. you NEED a healer to stay out of fight and heal individuals fighting good idea to have warrior/pally to rescue some of the creatures off of you. etc etc
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Bladefury



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:07 pm    Post subject:

This needs to be an area that at least 2 vets need to be present. who am i kidding? we are all vets right right?
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:27 am    Post subject:

Well it seems stupid to have 10 hp and 0 ac at the same time. It looks like the item is trying to be balanced and unbalanced simultaneously and failing to pull it off. The ice armor seems right.
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Grayden



Joined: 21 Jun 2005
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Location: Spokane, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:11 am    Post subject:

This is why random armor is so appealing.

PS. Life has been taking all my time, but I am still lurking.
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 4:05 pm    Post subject:

in reply to Mikoos: the reason slow can mess AC up is lowering dexterity... Dexterity increases AC.

But getting back to the topic at hand... Arguments could be made both ways regarding updating magic AC. Like Olyn said, the tiger sleeves don't have any yet sub-issue sleeves do for some reason (I would imagine the same is true with Rainen's charcoal blackened trousers and sub-issue leggings but cba to look it up). Monks in particular from what I have seen get/use a lot of the equipment from Winter because not only is some of it light, but they actually have the means to access it. We just saw Rhoa demolish a Warlord monk in a duel, and the demon-elf was also doing nasty damage with fireballs... If we update it, a little bit of magic AC probably isn't a bad thing, but don't make it too much because it is likely to impact monks heavily!

The other possibility regarding updating magic AC (don't bother) also makes some sense and I don't have to go into great detail. It saves the Immortals some effort, though with no topics in the current patch thread on the forums I don't know what the Immortals are working on (or thinking about working on) these days...

(Also, regarding what hamsandwich said, he has a point about the light versus heavy armour which I had not considered)


Last edited by BlackWidow on Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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hamsandwich



Joined: 08 Jan 2019
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:38 am    Post subject:

Just don't forget ac multipliers. Light armor sucks ass for AC. If you add 10 magic ac to the sleeves then some monk will get an extra 10 magic ac. Not gonna break the game. If you add 25 magic ac to the ice armor then some paladin punk is gonna be rocking 100 extra magic ac. That's absolutely insane and will definitely change the balance of the game.

AC multipliers are bonkers. Light armor always has the lowest ac and no multiplier, then heavy armor has higher and it is multiplied. You're comparing 10 ac to 100? Wow.
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Mikoos



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 6:04 am    Post subject:

Having -8 DEX due to slow didn't change my AC from my normal DEX. that was the bug, but hey thanks for jumping to conclusions.
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