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The event "Recovering the Lost Arcane Relics" is beginning in 21 days, 10 hours.

yet another weapon switch thread
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Andrael



Joined: 15 Jan 2013
Posts: 779

PostPosted: Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:40 pm    Post subject:

I wonder how the thief skill 'cheap shot' could play into this.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 7:07 pm    Post subject:

Just so you guys know I went with the swaplock option, I'm not sure how I felt about it so we can be ready for a quick revert instead of a year between release and next patch. If you want to throw anything else on the thread (like the comment about cheap shot, good point) just keep in mind its already swaplock
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Scrynor



Joined: 26 Jul 2021
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Location: New York

PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2023 3:52 pm    Post subject:

Comment related but different from this topic, I feel like there are many deprecated items in the game now that running the weapon swap triangles is so important.

Weapons that cannot be easily removed, or sets that include a weapon, are all interesting options that are largely ignored because of how important the triangles are. I would love to see these items and sets get a refresh to make them more usable. Or some other workaround introduced.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:13 am    Post subject:

This comment needs specifics Scrynor
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Rothak



Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 254
Location: Japan

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:19 am    Post subject:

Reading Scrynor’s post makes me think of golden guardian set. Especially since religious floaters no longer replace a weapon in the art. The golden voulge with red tassels is what, average 16? Same thing for fiery fangs
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Scrynor



Joined: 26 Jul 2021
Posts: 70
Location: New York

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:04 pm    Post subject:

So this is certainly an incomplete list but here are some of my notes on it.

Notable weapons with noremove:

Spine of Schwartzer
sub-chief's staff
Solar Grasp of Wendigo
Tayku the Voodoo Doll of Aggravation
the Taint of Shaden Dalghul
Scythe of the grim reaper
'Khyer-Dirohm', the Vorpal Sword of Atonement
Vainglory
Smoldering black mace
scourge of endless suffering


Notable sets with weapons:

Wolf's Malice
Legacy of Gonturan
Titanic Champion
Torments of Hell

Fiery Fangs
Arcane gemstones


Now I am certain there are justifications or reasons for some of them that isn't simply "these existed before combat advantage was so important and tied into so many skills". For instance, Solar Grasp it might be an intentional balance to demand weapon freeing and make it harder to use. Or Torments maybe it's intentional because shamans are so good with it. You could also argue something like Wolf's Malice, the demands of the set are so low the set bonus is just that. A bonus for when you have the weapon on.

But you look at something like Titanic Champion and it has so many pieces of gear. And it locks you into one combat style or you lose the bonus you worked so hard to get.

Gonturan is kind of the same. It has the super cool bonus of adding fencing. But it locks you into dual wielding for the set bonus and denies you two-handed fully without weapon freeing unless you are a warrior and can double grip. Drows can't even wield it because the vorpal is too heavy. So we're looking at a neutral half-elf as the best case scenario to go up from 19 str to 22 int? Maybe a quasit thief if you could get a pixie to shrink the vorpal it would be light enough to wield? Haven't tested that. But then you are still locked into weapon type and style.

The Taint and Vorpal were two of the most coveted weapons way back and I rarely see them used now because they aren't sufficiently superior to be worth the hassle of weapon freeing to run the triangles.

I'm not even sure what fix I am proposing. I'm just pointing out something that I think hasn't aged super well with the current state of combat. It would be cool for these weapons and sets to be used more often.
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Scrynor



Joined: 26 Jul 2021
Posts: 70
Location: New York

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 4:20 pm    Post subject:

While I am talking sets. I just want to say that I love the sets with permanent interesting effects. I wish there were more of them. How cool would it be if there was so oddball set a fire giant could put together to get a permanent fire shield on to dampen incoming ice damage?
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Ashlyn



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
Posts: 269

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:30 pm    Post subject:

No. Fire giants have a ridiculously op vuln because they are ridiculously strong.
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Scrynor



Joined: 26 Jul 2021
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Location: New York

PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:06 pm    Post subject:

That's just an example!

Besides, it's a set proposal. You (Dav) could freely tune it however he wants with the sub optimal gear demands it puts on the player. That example doesn't have to make a fire giant strictly better. It just has to be an interesting option. It would likely tune down their damage by reducing the hit / dam they could load out in exchange for that unusual benefit. And it would almost certainly contain a unique so it would just be 1 person who could wear it.
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 12:53 am    Post subject:

Weapon/combat style advantage only matters if it helps you do more damage than your opponent... I believe Kryton said he couldn't match Militha's damage when she had Mourneblade fully enchanted through combat and weapon style advantage alone.

In the past, I've found that the Centurion's polearm is so ridiculously strong against drow that I can let a shadow (ninja as it was in the past) sidestep me and I end up outdamaging them. And this was before sidestep could miss from being parried and whatnot...

With that said, many classes depend heavily on getting an advantage with combat style, weapon style, or both. Berserkers can choose to finish a fight with rage, but it leaves them vulnerable to an overhead crush if they're not wielding a two-handed weapon... And a two-handed weapon has its own set of problems. They do start the fight by fighting like a warrior though, e.g. they try into get combat style advantage for hobble. I don't think I need to explain warriors, rangers, rogues, or hybrids,,,
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:13 am    Post subject:

Yeah, ideas are cool, but please don't throw something ludicrous and then look to me to fix half-assed suggestion. It isnt respectful of mine or really anyone's time. Enchanted engraved imbued augmented titanium tenor was peak ridiculousness on AR. as soon as you guys started getting the idea to swap out the intentionally shitty weapons in sets for better ones, you are making a move which puts us on apath i dont ever want to go back down. Golden Guardian is a good low level set that does not scale, and thats ok.
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Scrynor



Joined: 26 Jul 2021
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Location: New York

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:49 am    Post subject:

Who are you talking to? Not one disrespectful post has been made since your post asking for specifics unless we are counting the one you just made.
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 467
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:09 am    Post subject:

Golden Guardian no longer requires a weapon by the way... And before engraving got nerfed, it was a passable set for druids if you replaced the dwarven golden rings with rings from the storm giant emissary in the Castle outside of the Malevolent Mansion (since those aren't made of metal, but the golden rings are).

People made fun of me for using the Golden Guardian set sometimes on one of my druids but it was actually more effective than the set of rares I obtained otherwise. I just didn't bother arguing because the OOC stats shouldn't be discussed in game (despite the fact that I needed really good rares to get equivalent hitroll/damroll to the set, and this in turn wrecked my save versus spell). In any case, now you know about some of the Golden Guardian set's former potential.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:26 am    Post subject:

generally, scrynor, this thread is about getting weapon switch right for the patch, not introducing PERMANENT FIRE SHIELD, anyways this thread has run its course so I guess thats fine. didnt intend to necro it. back to work
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Scrynor



Joined: 26 Jul 2021
Posts: 70
Location: New York

PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:16 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, I admit I diverted the topic a bit. But you asked for specifics on my post and I took the effort to click through the codex to make a big post to do exactly what you asked. Then got chided for my effort saying I didn't respect your time?

I regret even mentioning the fire shield thing. It seems it was a distraction from the real conversation I was trying to have that could not be ignored. was just trying to give you one players opinion that I like sets with permanent effects if you end up working on them again. Which is totally up to you.
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Davairus
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:14 am    Post subject:

Dont worry I'm just getting the burn out from working on this thing and getting short
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