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Necromancers.
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Ozaru



Joined: 01 Jun 2010
Posts: 1076

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:27 pm    Post subject:

<592hp 316m 382mv city (outside) 3am (night)
vamp rat
Your vampiric touch MANGLES a large, filthy rat!
A large, filthy rat is DEAD!!
A large, filthy rat's tail is severed from its dead body.

<648hp 286m 382mv city (outside) 3am (night)

This is from the log against Linisan and Raeko, horrible fight. So you don't see a problem vamp touching a rat for 50 instant hp?
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Xenyar
Emissary


Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 606

PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:42 pm    Post subject:

Dav, I certainly didn't ruin a playerbase because I played the game with a character...that you even gave props to on the GY. Which, for some reason, is showing as an active character, and you wont fix it so Illyiza has a tombstone again...I posted something in Ask an Immortal. And you, out of all people blaming somebody for the playerbase? Ironic, ironic indeed.

-Flesh and stone golem lost second attack.(Oh necros do doo much damage, lets change this)
-Vamp touch changed to scaling level, healing for 16 hp at 35 mana cost on a nymph.(oh look, vamp touch is healing more than I think it should, I'll gut it to make it completely useless of a spell, and a waste of mana if you try using it.)
-can't attempt sleep twice in a row. There's a cool down put on it now.(knee jerk to people not wearing saves and getting whacked)
-ghoul frenzy no longer works on skeletons ( you saw a warlord got beat by an army of skeletons, bam, knee jerk change.) then said well, skeletons aren't ghouls. you could have changed the name to army frenzy of something..
-zombies popping
-I'm sure I'm forgetting some of the other stuff..

So here's mny point Dav. Half of these changes are just knee-jerk, on the spot changes. I'd think you were lying if you said they were thought/time invested changes. Because they weren't. They simply weren't. Now you've created a class that nobody wants to play. Look at your player list. Ninjas and Necros at the bottom... hmm. Proof is in the pudding.

I'd suggest this. go to the drawing board, have a brainstorming session. Even open it up to the playerbase for input.. put a decisive plan together, that has time and thought invested. Then make calculated changes. BEFORE you do the classic knee-jerk meat grinder garbage. I think that's what bothers me the most. not only did you fuck necros over, but how you did it.

I've laid it out there and got it off my chest. There's nothing I can do. so I'll try to think of more ideas to help fix your mess.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10366
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:56 am    Post subject:

There's just no point to use rational arguments with someone who has renounced reason. For instance, using # of people playing a class as indicative of its fitness.
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Xenyar
Emissary


Joined: 26 May 2010
Posts: 606

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:24 pm    Post subject:

There's no reasoning with somebody who will ignore every point made and tries to discredit you with some arbitrary comment, just so they don't have to face the facts. meh.. Captain knee-jerk, then rationalize whatever the hell you did.. Same old dav...I got nothing else for you on the necro topic for now, buddy.

For the record, I'm not saying change wasn't necessary with necros.
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Davairus
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Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10366
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:42 am    Post subject:

OK, you are definitely spreading lies, trying to convince anybody here that anything I do is "knee-jerk". i don't think you really understand what that phrase means. a knee-jerk would be to just ban you from AR without replying and without addressing anything (which is what your own posts are strongly themed like). This is so petty and dumb Xenyar. This thread is a dumpster fire that really should just go to the wasteland to die. and you would call that a knee-jerk when EVERYBODY ELSE can see the problem, which is like, for the 1000th time, that all this drivel overriding the thread (much like your lamentations about OP necro zombies and vamp touching) is a huge turn off for everybody else. You are projecting like a mofo with these accusations of rationalizations. Literally thats what you are doing, by basing strength of a class on its popularity... that's what rationalization means... when your logic is fucking flawed and stupid. Like when you are rationalizing player vamp touching level 1 mobs for 90 hp heal is fine based on some bullshit belief that you and you alone were targeted for nerf. I could give a toss about your necro. Ilyiza wasnt even the necro. Based on those reasons, I REASONED (notice the difference) theres no point to argue about this with you. Its you who cant be wrong. Duh. quit shitting in the goddamn patch threads , its very disheartening for everyone else who actually wants - probably even thirsts for - any sort of intelligent discussion in this retarded piece of shit country full of egotistical gaslighting assholes.
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Ceridwel
Immortal


Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 3388
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 4:21 pm    Post subject:

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/wlcdqy/a_museum_in_iceland_is_home_to_the_only_known/
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Bladefury

BANNED

Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:22 pm    Post subject:

So I got an idea. What if we can take the soul we collect and put it into the zombie so it doesn't explode anymore. Soul has to be equal to or greater than zombie. This stops people from perma strong 56 ranks zombies and you have to have the souls to be useful so even if we collect 100 of them at rank 25 it's useless. Skill or spell can be rank 50 called soul bind. This also means we have to get the kill with your stupid exploding zombies to prove we deserve to have a permanent one worse case scenario you can make the cap on the soul bind 48 meaning we can't get a bunch of innkeepers or trolls and roll people.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10366
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:03 pm    Post subject:

OK so there is one part I will disagree with Res on- having these zombies falling over dead is evidently anti-necro because its ultimately restoring the cycle of life, and the necro is going to look for ways to again press the pause button and stop death. I get the goal of the suggestion, but in its execution probably not so much. I don't think its going to do much more than encourage the same turkey shoots we are aiming to deter, as the necro will want a big bag of souls to fund that army, and where will they find it? Also, if your zombies have souls, they are not really undead are they? The key ingredient of animation is not a soul, its actually ectoplasm that's holding that shit together.

I find its gold, not the souls they capture, that is best fit for necro stuff, because necros are satirical of dictatorships. Those run on gold they've stolen, and that goes back thousands of years. That means same as we do with mercs already, the easiest thing is simply put in a gold upkeep so that the necro can run his army for as long as he can afford it, simply return to sepulcher for renewal, much like paying your electricity bill on time to avoid service interruption, and let their problem be gold rather than time. I think that gold can be replaced with any other physical resources, that's gems, rare metals, and any object which has seen evil (like an evil rare item or maybe tainted rares in the Legion cabal case), so that there could be alternatives to gold, but not souls, those are ornamental for necromancers, perhaps we will have souls kept in their shrouds and worn for extra mana according to how many souls they possess at some point if we do not already do it. it will definitely feel bad to "consume" those souls, on the other hand, going back to sepulcher to spend decorated gold resurrect a procured and destroyed zombie (either due to it being turned or just died of age) like a dead pet will probably be fun.

If we are going to give necros a pathway to these long zombies, lets also remember there is a druid class (nature is their thing) that should be opposing whatever that necro is doing. There is a druid spell "flash flood" water spell, and water spells are meant to be life-giving spells. so as druid maybe you could just flood the room and the zombies would become useless and maybe even destroyed due to being "baptized" and the druid will be trying to get your decorated gold fee to stop your sepulcher resurrection as well. Also gives me a reason to finally fix control weather to just have the weather pattern follow the druid around/ That would give the turkey shoot necro a foil and not need to be worrying about turkey shoot since a druid will provide immediate headache by making a rather one-sided gold attrition battle out of this situation.

TLDR: stuff shrouds with souls for casting bonus; resurrect zombies at sepulcher; druids give country ass whuppings to zombies
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Bladefury

BANNED

Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 520

PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:30 pm    Post subject:

I like it
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Resatimm
Takes the Cake


Joined: 23 Jan 2004
Posts: 980

PostPosted: Sat Aug 27, 2022 9:57 am    Post subject:

Ozaru said "You guys are really oversimplifying this. The nerf took place because someone purposefully logged in like 4 hours before people normally logged on so they would have ample peaceful time to prep their army.

It would be really interesting if that same necro with 3 skeletons logging in at the middle of peak play time would be as successful.

I can't imagine wanting to play for 5 straight hours grinding for an army finally getting it and then some dope logs in and you kill him in 20 seconds with 0 challenge because u put in 5 hours worth of work."

That was the only way to play the class 20 years ago, but the pbase could support people logging off to stay alive (Except Ashlyn). Now adays, thats an exact thing to nerf. My personal thought is that necros are becoming "irregulars" rather than cut & dry mages with anti life/poison.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10366
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:57 am    Post subject:

Ok so I will post it in this thread but this is also probably a reasonable general announcement to make. At this point, I don't know if its because I have less free time or more tired from a more gruelling job these days, or if its maybe I just like doing other things outside AR more than I used to, or maybe it is because its mainly just me coding these days? Probably hasnt helped. but.. regardless of reasons.. I would say it looks like I still have enough work ahead of me to code on this patch to take another 2-3 months to finish it all, its really not insignificant work remaining at all.

So what I'm thinking I might do here is wrap up what I have completed (whchi is probably still a few weeks of work, as testing and recruiting people to help test has not been as easy to schedule as I remember it) and just push everything else for the next patch - is not cancelled, but I am obviously behind schedule and I don't really think it makes sense to delay the things we finished for as long as we have. I have some good shit for you guys, and would rather get that to you sooner than leave it pending what seems to be a giant pain in the ass necro rework. TBH I would like to actually level a necro up and see what's so shitty about them for myself.
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Dogran
Immortal


Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 1804

PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:15 pm    Post subject:

What he means, is he has some REALLY good shit for us this time around Very Happy
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