Jotun

[Rothak]

Can we make jotuns be warriors and berserkers as well?

[Ashlyn]

You wouldn't have a place for storm giant at that point

[Dogran]

They would be too strong.

[Davairus]

So, jotun was fashioned from fells. Literally, the same race, just changed up.
With fells, we had 21 20 20 21 21 with no vulns, and they were pretty obviously better than humans in every way with the large bash on top. For jotuns, that race is currently at 22 18 23 18 22 , so you can see that pretty much we flattened all the 21's into +3 wis, and then just dipped from int/dex into str/con. So the stats are purposefully unbalanced, and then we had the pierce vuln on top to make it double unbalanced, i.e. balanced by extremes. Now that we have the obsidian vuln, which is still nice but not near what pierce vuln was, it might be time to go back to fell stats. Then I might feel ok with jotun warrior/zerker.

[Mogu]

That's interesting. In my opinion it's the 23 wisdom that makes Jotuns OP. 4 pracs plus improved parry/shield block. I've always assumed str/wis and wis/con are equally important for those skills but I have no idea how it's weighted.

Considering Jotuns are a giant race, 21 str feels low since humans can have 21 str. Same with con (though that's more believable). I think a statline like 22/20/20/18/22 would be more fitting. I might be wrong but the obsidian weakness (not vuln) doesn't seem that bad.

[Olyn]

The arcane resist gives Jotun a very different feel than giants, regardless of stats. The high wisdom is the main issue I have with them in their current state. I personally like 22/17/21/18/22 for stats. Those are the slith numbers assigned to different abilities.

I did prefer the more comprehensive stone weakness over the new obsidian one, but that will still be okay if we add some more obsidian weapons. I don't know what's in the new endgame area, but we definitely need some accessible stuff scattered around. I already reintroduced a sharp shard of obsidian since I didn't see one in the towers of sorcery.

We could also consider updating the invoker metal shards spell to earth shards and let it pull iron, silver, and obsidian instead of the pool of metals it currently has.

[Merlandox]

The entire black pyramid is obsidian. If you're a jotun you cannot even pick up the glyphs that form a secret to be completed. So yeah, there you go for obsidian

[Davairus]

-17 int doesn't seem very original, I think. it looks too much like minotaurs, which look better due to having bash resistance and the charge thing. The jotuns I imagined are not supposed to be like minotaurs, instead closer to humans. They are like big scandinavian dudes, tall and jacked viking bastards, but not muscle bound to the point of a low dex, and not idiots either, simply a gifted race with a kryptonite. A stat line that looks like humans which adds a bit of punch for the obsidian vuln tradeoff seems like best fit. not to be confused with the redhorne mountain fire giants which were named jotuns by resatimm before any of us realized what he was doing

[Mr. Forgotten]

Wait, the Jotuns in Redhorne are Fire Giants?

[Davairus]

traditional DND is that fire giants are from volcano areas. It follows that, at the very least, the boss at the end of a volcano should be a fire giant, and probably a shaman to be able to take command of the lava flows there and nuke your party with it. Res put a necro as the final boss. He built it the way he did, that's his prerogrative, and could be an interesting take - but if I had put a necromancer in the heart of a volcano, I would have the creatures you fight on the way there be stone golems and the like. I would make the area theme be that the volcano is laying dormant like a dead body, and the necro is trying to find a way to bring the volcano back to life. Dunno why you slap in jotuns (frost giants) when the low hanging fruit was there. Its just slapped together IMO. I don't mean to shit on redhorne. The area is cool. I'm just critiqueing the set design based on having a little experience myself writing stuff. To me that means just make that mountain into a gigantic corpse.