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Set Lists (Remember the Rules)
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Grayden



Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 642
Location: Spokane, WA

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2024 4:38 pm    Post subject:

Red fox is neutral only. Get in there you beautiful people of balance.

Hopefully the key peace will be updated to only a being part of the set and anyone can wear it. The items has no other in game effect but to deny good and evil.

Can I get an alhoon yet, still feels like a lot of gatekeeping in AR. It would be the only update no one should complain about (a rolling roster of incompetence from the necromancers guild) .
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2024 6:13 pm    Post subject:

The new Red Fox is neutral only... If you can't do away with the earring, which you can (at least for now). Devote soul and the religious items both allow that item to be ignored entirely.
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Grayden



Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 642
Location: Spokane, WA

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2024 9:09 pm    Post subject:

Object 'earring red fang' is type jewelry, material ruby.
Extra_flags: anti_good anti_evil.
Not made to be worn.
Weight is 0.1 lbs, value is 250, level is 40.
This item is part of the set 'Vulpine Guile'.

Identified by Foggledonk the Sage of Arcane Power, Abecedarian of Physical on 2024-05-11.
from Unsiliel Wood

What your not seeing is the lore thar this is a key piece you cannot engrave or skip with religious devotion. Trust me.
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ivindel



Joined: 20 Nov 2015
Posts: 169
Location: Singapore

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2024 2:28 am    Post subject:

Haha is there some kind of secret OP to the Vulpine Guile set? I thought this is all it does:

Set : Vulpine Guile : modifies armor class by 30 permanently
: modifies save vs mental by 20 permanently
: modifies intelligence by 2 permanently
: modifies hitroll by 5 permanently
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Tue May 21, 2024 7:47 pm    Post subject:

Hmm, well I had a good-aligned character who gathered the set without the earring and I was able to get the set bonuses with the soul devotion... It's possible that it was changed since then, of course.

Based on the bonuses Ivindel had shown, maybe the set could be combined with the tactical butter knife (possibly with engraved save vs spell items) for a halfling thief as a backup for spell saves? 20 save versus mental is equivalent to more than one item specifically added for that purpose (basically 1.5x if we use the ring of closed minds as our base example).
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Mogu



Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2024 2:43 am    Post subject:

Vulpine Guile also adds chance to dodge, much like those daggers enhancing dual parry (as I understand it). If your class doesn't naturally have dodge, now you have a slight chance to dodge in addition to other defenses. If your class does have dodge, now you have a slightly improved dodge.

Grayden is correct that you cannot replace a signature item in a set with soul devotion or the religion floater. E.g. you must now wear the rainbow staff light to complete Colours of Wizardry.
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Stiehl26



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 701

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 12:05 am    Post subject:

Where does it say that about the dodge?
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Mogu



Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 3:42 am    Post subject:

It doesn't. Dav talked about it in Discord chat on 3/31.
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Stiehl26



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 701

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 4:44 am    Post subject:

So a hidden stat with only an out of game way to know that? What other items, if any, have stats not shown by lore/identify? Is this something people were aware of? Is there an In game reason to hide those stats?
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Mogu



Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 11:20 am    Post subject:

You could learn it in game by wearing the set on a class without dodge.

Some other sets with an unlisted "stat" I know about is Legacy of Gonturan which gives you fencing. But that's pretty obvious once you complete the set.

Torments of Hell makes you fly (which you can't turn off) and turns your attack into unholy wrath.

River of Refuge gives you the slow buff (calling it buff because the intent is increased mana regen) if you stand still for a little bit. I'm sure there are others I don't know about.
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Kornhole



Joined: 15 Aug 2012
Posts: 381
Location: Melbourne, Florida

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 11:42 am    Post subject:

Isn't there one that lightning storm on death, and lightning bolts at random? Patchwork Horrors, I think?
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Stiehl26



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 701

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 2:16 pm    Post subject:

Thank you, great stuff. But when you put on the set and identify it or lore you don’t see the hidden stats? So no real way to theorycraft without the whole set. No necessarily bad, I just thought lore/identify showed all stats. Are there regular items they have hidden stats? I build around the codex and self identify. Perhaps for people who don’t know there are even hidden stats on items, and for transparency for new players so they don’t feel the learning curve any more than is already present, we don’t hide stats of any kind (minus cabal powers)?
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 5:46 pm    Post subject:

Lore/identify doesn't tell you any "special affects" which a set grants. The Wings set is permaflight, Malicious Beast grants infravision, and Patchwork Horror casts lightning bolt (and thunder storm upon death), just to name the ones I recall offhand. Treant Thews used to give a vulnerability to fire iirc.

Edit: oh yeah, and Titanic Champion grants a +1 bonus to size, but that is shown explicitly in the affects once you gain the set. It's not at all obvious until you gain the items that it's great for a storm giant healer.
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Grayden



Joined: 21 Jun 2005
Posts: 642
Location: Spokane, WA

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 9:22 pm    Post subject:

Boots of discord and thread of life come to mind with hidden functionality.

Boots aid healing the longer you sleep and threads can resurrect, but never got threads to work, I imagine you could bring a pet back.

Edit and toad stone if it still turns you into a toad.
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Mogu



Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2024 11:08 pm    Post subject:

Boots of disregard? I don't think boots of discord exist.
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Stiehl26



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 701

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2024 2:22 am    Post subject:

It is unfortunate to think that there are items that are out there that there are no real ways to see if they are good or bad. An item may appear to be trash but has some hidden thing that only a limited amount of people can see. Diminishes the value of the codex a little bit as well.

I've seen dual parry daggers/swords that show on identify/lore. Would it be possible to not silo information and let all stats on items be shown?

Not trying to start world war 3 here, just clarity. I've had that thread before, had no idea it could res you.

Object 'threads life' is type jewelry, material cloth.
Extra_flags: glow hum nodrop noremove no_locate no_uncurse.
Made to be held.
Weight is 10 lbs, value is 1, level is 50.
Affects health by 30.
Affects wisdom by 1.
Affects save vs spell by 5.
Unique item.
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BlackWidow



Joined: 24 Apr 2014
Posts: 484
Location: Yes

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2024 2:54 am    Post subject:

From what I understood about the threads of life, they simply allowed you to use the revive command (whatever that does). I wasn't aware they effectively gave you another life.

Another trap which I think most of our experienced players know about: the herb (potion?) of invincibility from Farmer Griff's quest sounds great if you're not aware that it instantly kills you upon consumption, which turns you into a ghost (thus making you invincible for the time being).

Anyway we're veering off-topic here.
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Davairus
Implementor


Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 10369
Location: 0x0000

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2024 3:25 am    Post subject:

just get me a to do list and i can chug through it. i dont really know how to put what sets do into an ID offhand, so feel free to pitch some ideas. also we'll have to come up with a way to invalidate identifies in the codex that are in need of updated id but are not showing that they changed.
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Mogu



Joined: 21 Mar 2015
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2024 2:40 pm    Post subject:

I think these are two separate (but similar) issues:

1. Individual items with hidden perks (these perks could show up under ID or Lore).
2. Completed sets with hidden perks (these perks could be added to the set bonus listed under affects but would not show up under the ID or Lore of an individual item from that set).

I get that there's always been the sentiment to preserve mystique of the game (and yes, it's awesome when you uncover a well kept secret) but to Stiehl's point that's putting newbies at an even greater disadvantage. To combat that could we take the opposite approach with sets and actually list them for all the world to see? This would certainly motivate me to roll a race/class combo to specifically pursue a set that would make me feel badass. I've always been a huge fan of Diablo 2's Arreat Summit site that provides these details: https://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/sets/sets7.shtml#talrashas

I'm not aware of the last issue you brought up with outdated IDs not showing up.
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Stiehl26



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 701

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2024 2:58 pm    Post subject:

This, exactly, Mogu.

To Dav's request, I think that has to be an onus on the players who know...and more importantly, are willing to share what they know. Try Hards arent going to let you know that some weird item has some hidden stat that greatly benefits them.

Step 1: add a flag to "hidden stat" items
Step 2: add a method to track and report on the flag
Step 3: make all changes transparent through the monthly updates
Step 4: require creation/addition of hidden stats to be vetted by senior Imm's

Would be a start.
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