"Imagination" meets "Functionality"

[Vhrael]

The "Ideas" thread with talk about the lights got me thinking about something that I've thought about several other times, and I'm just curious now if it's something that bothers the vast majority of players.

One of the biggest things that can irritate people is the level of what Dav referred to in a thread a long time ago as "embeddedness," meaning how deeply entrenched in the game you feel. The problem is that the RP/"imagination" side doesn't always mesh cleanly enough with the "technical"/this-is-how-it-has-to-be-done-in-order-to-work side.

Example:

A player recently mentioned that he didn't believe "tells" should be used, since he said it didn't make sense that you could talk to someone halfway across the world, especially without knowing where they were. One possible in-game explanation for this could be that in the realm of Thera, everyone has a form of "telepathy" which allows all people to communicate with each other via the 'tell' channel. While the player didn't necessarily agree with this as a plausible explanation, it was finally resolved.

The problem, as this thread's title attempts to point out, is that there has to be a transition or "meeting in the middle" between the player's imagination and the game or code functionality. Think about all of the hundreds of things that seem "odd" from a realistic viewpoint:

- There's magic... period.
- You can see how many people are in the world (who).
- You can tell which race every person in the world is (who).
- You can only kill certain people, instead of being able to kill young or old people indiscriminantly.
- You can speak in various modes (tell, grouptell, newbie, yell, auction, say) that only certain people can hear if you choose.
- You understand the language of completely foreign races (elf -> human -> dwarf -> giant -> slith -> avian -> werebeast -> etc.) without proper training.
- You can die 60+ times.
- You can be DISEMBOWELED more than once.
- When you kill a creature, if you wait long enough it comes back and doesn't remember a thing.
- A corpse, when butchered, will at most give you 4 steaks - regardless of its size.
- You see my point... the list could continue ad nauseum.

Anyway, the reason I bring this up is that I'm curious to know if it's really a problem for people to get over these "quirks" and enjoy the game. You do know it's a game, right?

A PK-based multi-user dungeon that is RP-enforced. Not an RP-based multi-user dungeon that is PK-enforced. Hmm... that might be interesting:

[gr8mage]

magic doesnt bother, because in its own way it can be involing and fantasy realistic, but tell gt and anything that allows you to communicate long distances excluding others from listening does seem a little off.

everyone whos an adventurer( I.E. the players should understand the main language of the world. (although it would be interesting to have more specialized areas or even other continents where these races come from which speak their own language)

The repop thing is a little RP ruining too, unless you consider it as new monsters of similar type trying to reinhabit the area.

If its RP enforced PK environ, I think its kind of self defeating. people argue over and over "he pked me for non rp reasons" and I think the big reason for this continuing arguements and accusations is the point immortals try to drive into you over and over again this is a PK based game with RP enforcement.

I believe if it was a RP base game, the PK would flow naturally, and noone would have less of non rp reasons for pking, much less have good reason to accuse others for it. Of course you can just personally try to RP all the time, and your PKs would then be RP based, even if noone agrees(what was that gnome with a lifelike RP who everone hated and got the player(AND character) screwed over for?).

Lots of MMORPGs let you PK with no RP, and there are a few hardcore RP ones. IMO if you want people to RP and you all enjoy it, and get pissed at those who PK when they dont RP, why is it PK based/RP enforced? Conflict happens naturally. RP would bring conflict, hence PK.

I think its just the idea hammered in PK is what its all about, that detracts from RP, which then detracts from reasonable PK, and because its always around the back of your mind thats pretty much all you an think of.

And the who list does seem a little detrimental to RP/involment in game, but if there was a logical way to get information and talk to people it might work just as well. I guess tell is like a messanger(albiet incredibly fast on his feet), but there could be mobs in town you could ask information of like what kind of adventurers have they seen, and they could give you a list or something, and then theres always north and south square for finding people(though without a lot more players on consistently it wouldnt work that well).

Where seems a little of a stretch, but most likely necessary, and you can see people from far off anyway(although around buildings and such I dunno, maybe theres mirrors on them so you can find your enemies around corners). Or it could be that you keep track of peoples movements if you see them in an area. Kind of like doing the mental work for you.

Also about connecting players with characters, that seems a little OOC, look at the graveyard posts or props post and its always speaking to char AND player in first person. things like

[Static Impulse]

I've always been a heavy RPer and thought that that AR should be more enforced as far as roleplaying goes. The aspect that there is magic isn't that big of a deal for me since it is supposed to be a fantasy game. Tells and all those types of telling people doesn't make sense, but I don't tend to really pay attention to it. I can RP perfectly well with out having someone "telling" me taking me out of the experience. Who list telling you everything about a person you've never met is kinda a bit extreme, but I can't think of anyway to get around that really. The language part though does take me out a bit. I kinda like the way that WOW has the different languages for each race, and most know a "common" language. I think it would be pretty cool to be able to talk to your elven (or whatever) buddy in your own kinda language. RP reasons would be good, but coding would be a nightmare I would imagine. That's about all I can think of that really takes me out of the game.

So as a summary, the fact that most people don't roleplay all that well according to their race/class is what takes me out of the "mood" of the game.

[gr8mage]

While there can be general criteria for class/race roleplay, the restrictions make most of it canned or classic RP. Yes there are some interesting characters out there, the problem is these pioneers in GOOD AND REALISTIC RP get screwed because everyone complains then the char is gimped or denied(denying seeming more like OOC punishment to me). I thought becaues of Maxlhorns reputation that would likely happen to him. Its the character although the player is controlling, but look at him as part of the world, not as an extension of some guy on a computer. thats what RP is all about right?

Think of people who broke rules in the past, in their own time demonized and even killed, now revered as forward progressive thinkers. Its just the fact of the way people are, don't like things that challenge their beliefs. People who were clinically insane and did crazy shit like kill people and run down the street naked used to be considered "evil" now with science we realize that they are in their own world, out of their mind, and need padded walls and medication. Theyre not necessarily "evil" (which is a human designation to help orginize one way or the other btw because human brains have an innate addictive need to categorize.) Maxlhorn was a great example of a personality that has a completely differently different outlook on the world than the majority.

[Static Impulse]

While it's true that the characters that get really well known for their RP ability are general talked down upon, (though there were quite a few that haven't such as Txi..., Gygh, Thkot to name a few.) They just became well known for that RP playing. Every char I've played has been roleplayed, but I never get well known so no one complains or wants me denied. I just want more roleplaying going on, none of this I'm evil so I'll kill you and then quit crap. It's get's really old to see sterotypical stuff like that.

[Flying Hampster of Doom]

I feel that sometimes people often forget that this is an entirely different dimmension that you are messing around in. As such, do not expect that everything will be entirely the same as the world on which we are living. In fact, do not assume ANYTHING will be the same, the idea is foolhearty. I beleive that entering the world of Thera means that you are putting off certain chains that you cannot find where you currently work/play/go to school and so on. I am happy to put off those chains and simply play a game that I enjoy and remember it is a game and that the setting is in an entirely different universe, free of the social and physical constraints of our dear planet.

[gr8mage]

[Kalist19]

Does the 'deaf' command still work? If you really don't want to hear tells just turn that on. Type deaf in game. Or notell. Problem solved!

[gr8mage]

well for those ppl that want to try that..

deaf
From now on, you won't hear tells.
WARNING! This is not a roleplay command. Misusing DEAF
is against the RULES. See HELP IGNORE for information.

[Davairus]

The helpfiles are tools for developing your character's identity, not strait-jackets. Each alignment represents a broad range of personality types or personal philosophies, so two characters of the same alignment can still be quite different from each other. In addition, few people are completely consistent.

[gr8mage]

so if that gnome was roleplaying, what happened to him?

[Davairus]

If youre referring to Yion, he got booted out of Heralds because Heralds does not accept that behaviour. That's the price of joining a cabal/clan.. there are responsibilities to go with the powers, which you have to fulfill to remain in the group. I dont remember him being denied or screwed over in any way.

[gr8mage]

and I would accept that as good RP in game goings ons. But I wasnt talking about him..

[Davairus]

Are you going to say who you are talking about?

[Static Impulse]

I'd start a poll on who wants to actually have RP enforced, but I don't really see the reason. If anyone else wants to be my guest.

[bassball]

None of those things that you listed bother me at all, if it were perfectly real, it wouldnt be a game anymore, so in my mind, it wouldnt be fun anymore. I play games, not real life, it would be alittle freaky if you were playing a game that is almost exactly like real life. I wouldnt play it anymore. Most of those things actually make the game funner, every once in awhile I laugh when I see a couple disembowels in the same round

[Enskel]

Thkot was a stereotypical cowardly villain. Circumstances forced him to change his behavior. For example he had to rely on others to gain ranks. It was his responsiveness to situations that made his RP interesting.

Even cabal restrictions can fit a variety of RP. Thkot didn't die trying tor retrieve the skull because he was brave; he did it because he was addicted to the power that skull gave him and couldn't stand it being taken away.