Latest skill training change

[Davairus]

Ok here is the latest version. It isn't so brutally heavy-handed now.

The main issue at hand with training rate is that there was very little affect felt from the game beyond the arbitrary bonuses and penalties provided for by your +stat or lack thereof. I had been approaching that problem from the idea that the mob difficulty level should matter. This is a perfectly fine idea as I'm sure anyone with common sense will know. However what I implemented was definitely just a bit rough on you.. as I take the extra step of attempting to enforce an artificial "cap" on the training rate which just encourages you to sit low level fighting mists/hobgoblins (as it will be totally impossible later).

So now, here is the new package....

Variables
* Your level
* Your opponent's level

Your level - As you level you will find easier training rare, this doesn't kick in until the 36th rank, and progresses linearly thereafter, until a final spike for attaining level 50.

(If you are below level 36, you will not gain any boost to your training speeds.)

Your opponent's level - Of course as you level, you will be getting comparatively stronger than the mobs you're fighting, so therefore your chance of learning is suitably penalized. There is no bonus for attacking a higher level mob than yourself however, since you are already getting a bonus for your greater level.

So the basic idea is..

* level up for a better training rate
* find suitably higher level mobs to avoid cancelling the bonus to return to the base low-level rate (or penalizing yourself, if you have no bonus)

Old system
- higher level than mob = zero chance to learn
New
-higher level than mob = diminished learning rate bonus (it keeps near your base rate - which I warn you is low - instead of becoming zero)

[Davor]

Better then nothing

[Davairus]

I want to make sure I've made it clear how this is working, so in one sentence - its still not easily possible for high levels to master defences on 40 training mobs. The "miss" thing still owns that. The best place to learn is mobs of your own level.

1) take your basic chance to learn (which is gimp)
2) take into account your mental capacity considerations (e.g. fire giants slow, elf quick)
3) take into account level difference (level advantages diminish chances)
4) bonus for being in later ranks, which can make up for the handicaps (like bad int/wis, large level differences), no guarantees, I'm not going to disclose the specifics of that bonus
5) other multiplicative considerations, e.g. half-elf, surge

So, some examples. If you were a fire giant/dwarf/etc, you'd be hardy enough to tank the dragonlords for defences much later, but your brain penalties are shitty for you, so you'll probably be better off levelling up early on and fighting with the big boys as soon as possible. Whereas if you're an elf or half-elf, who can learn quick but is going to suck to tank for prolonged period later, that extra brainpower can be used to learn off easier creatures instead. By 50 this should have long since balanced out.

In later levels, when you pick up a boost to training rates, you can save considerable time training your skills if you stick to similar level stuff, but you've got the reaper to worry about since your deaths will be credited to other people for their own records. This in my opinion is risky enough to balance out that gain - no mob I can make will be full looting you for accidentally getting killed.

(You should always try to find and fight the hardest thing you can comfortably handle, kind of like levelling on butlers at 35 not really being as effective as ettins or even gnolls, because of such little exp points.)

Single biggest factor in making skill % a challenge and a respectable achievement is the threat of other players hosing you while you're vulnerable. There isn't a pk range that's ever 100% safe, but, there are plenty windows of opportunity in all level ranges so no real reason for training instead of taking a group, but if you got nothing to do... go make yourself better I guess. I suggest a regimen that brings in gold so that you can gamble some new items after your "work-out", which will probably be a lot more beneficial in the long run. The higher level mobs of course have the most gold.

As I have said before I am accepting suggestions to make our training more fun (if that is possible) and also any ways of challenging that heightens the sense of achievement (which is what I think is really motivating you to do it).

Also: If you are too low level for the learning bonus then you can actually be doing worse if you level, so if you decide to rank make sure you rank a whole bunch and dont half-ass it.

[Hilemal]

So, does this apply to all skills, or just defenses? I mean, can a level 30 train his weapons on level 20 mobs, or disarm on level 15 mobs? If not, why? I mean, I understand the training defenses part... but if you want to train disarm or such at lvl 50, it isn't like you can disarm the mob, kill it quickly, and move on to the next...

[Emo+o]

How should one go about training parry?
Especially for those more dexterous races like elf,drow,avian,halfling ?

In the past, where people can still train parry or dodge at gnome village, etc, if you belong to the above races and you train dodge before mastering parry, you can almost forget about ever mastering parry. Cos parry only has a chance to activate after you fail dodge and now counterbalance.

So the penalty for people who chose the more dexterous races for enhanced dodging is harsher now?

Is parry really meant to be this hard to train??

If its specially meant to be so, then I have nothing to say.


Anyway, with the current system, how does one actually train or master parry?

1) Spend lots of time and stay at low levels training?
2) Level up without training dodge and risk being hunted all the while?

Imagine a level 49 dark knight, bard, ninja, thief, paladin, warrior, ranger ..... without dodge and only a set of semi trained parry? How to level / pk ?

By the way, I have earned over 300k gold from my parry training and it isnt even near mastery yet...at this rate, I ain't sure which I will master 1st, 3rd attack or parry...

Suggestions anyone?

[Davairus]

I can see you have questions still but, the information is already in the posts, just read it properly and then experiment, read a little more, etc..

[marsd]

Emo+o.... by any chance you have msn? ermmmm mine's listed right below this inside the MSN picture so come find me

[Slade]

At level 31 and with 25 int, 24 wis, I just spent 45 mins in surge, fighting exp giving mobs (no match for you) that double and triple attack and also hit a resistance. I got.. no parry increases. At all. Previous training attempts have been similarly underwhelming.

Thats pretty lame. Some race/classes can't wait until level 36 or higher to get a defense or two to a respectable amount so they don't get pasted in half a second. Having mid to high-mid rank people with good defenses is not the end of the world.

[jeoparty]

Try fighting mobs that are a perfect match.

[gr8mage]

[Davairus]

Level 20-30 is in your prime for defences training because you've got the stone golems to train on. If those aren't working (which I'm guessing is either an enormous stroke of bad luck, or your defences are just already high) then you move onto the elemental canyon rulers. Incidentally, all those mobs have eq, which you can sell to shops right after you gamble. As training goes, those ranks are definitely the best place to do it, learning penalties aside. I know this works because I've done it with my own characters repeatedly.

I'm getting around to reviewing this some more - just posting to say that there's nothing wrong with that range.

[Jamus]

What I do to train (which works INCREDIBLY FAST) is go to the mansion with a sword trapped in ivy, attack everything in the upper level, flee, and go to the vestibule and wait until all 20 of them are there attacking me. It's crazy, because you shield block 7 times, parry 9, and dodge 5 every single round, and that sword doesn't affect any of them. Bellas/churels/butlers/talamaur. You can use an emerald longsword too, if you aren't a giant, for set parry and stuff.

In an hour of training, parry went up 11, shield block 7, and dodge up 10 or so, too. This was with a level 50 character, going against lvl 20 and under.

[rabidgecko]

Yeah that's a good idea...I have done it with my ranger, but what do you do as a monk?

[crazyhorse]

Monks have always been tricky. By far the most frustrating and fun class on the mud.


When I first started playing, Training a monk including warlord sparring gloves. Shazam, mastered defs easy.

Then those got removed. It went to sparring with an ooc buddy (usualy my bro) and having monsters attack me while all my hits landed on him with specific training gear.

Now...*shrug* There are little things you can do with most chars except for monks. You always gotta find your own tricks for monks.

[Davairus]

[Dminted]

I decided to play a monk, and by level 8 I had 5 skills sitting at 80% just trying to make it to level 10. Had one other hit 80% just before 10 but now closing in on 20 and only had anatomy go up 2%. This is all solo leveling too. I did not have a single increase during a surge either. This is a half elf too.

[rabidgecko]

I play a half-elf monk, I gained at least seven points on defenses today, just leveling and being the tank. I like the new system :

[Davairus]

Don't make the mistake of treating small samples as though they were large ones. Your example does not merit the evidential weight you intended - it is way too small to be representative. The amount of error and uncertainty inherent to a sample of that size is astronomical, considering how likely an improvement is to begin with.

Scientific studies have shown that people's intuition on what size a sample is needed to get a "feel" for the behaviour of the system is very poor. Even expert statisticians make this mistake, so there's a good excuse for you being over-confident about your conclusions here. Just know that they're wrong.