Illithid chaotic only?

[divsky]

I recently discovered through character creation that illithids are limited to chaotic only.

Now, I know that AR is not D&D, that we have our own original world here, but we all know that many of the core concepts in AR have been borrowed from the D&D world. Illithids are one of them. And I'm confused why AR illithids are chaotic only when the original illithids from D&D are lawful only.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illithid (look under the image at the top-right of the page)

http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Mind_flayer (From the Forgotten Realms wiki, look at the same place)

They're supposed to live in a very rigid, structured society. To me the illithid is the epitome of lawful evil. When I think of chaotic evil I think of fire giants, evil berserkers or deranged psychopaths, not illithids. They're supposed to be like evil vulcans, all logical and super-intelligent and everything. There seems to be a misconception in this game that chaotic is somehow more evil than lawful, and illithids are supposed to be an example of just why that's not true.

I would just like to see this changed, because I think it's impossible to really play a chaotic illithid. It's just doesn't fit their race.

[Mandor]

see the thread Logicbehind evil justices.

I pointed out that lawful in AR must mean something else, since I also pointed out the point of view you're talking about with lawful, yet Lawful in AR means following seringale laws, and not so much about following strict code and structure of society in general while punishing and vengeance against breachers and shitting on the guys under you.

Devils are lawful evil, they respect, honor, and follow the words of those above them while getting shit on, in turn they expect the same from those below them while shitting on them.

Drow are like that too, and The person who rigidly adhered to structure and rules, and always followed orders in a cabal like Legion, I'd say they're lawful. the chaotics are the ones that try to assassinate the leader to get his position.

but if you're lawful, you cant attack seringale, so AR must mean something else by lawful.



Edit: also, perhaps they are lawful evil underground, but on the surface where all races are inferior (to them), they'd probably be chaotic. ethos is not defined solely by self, but by self in relation to others as well.

And Illithids melt faces anyway. love em as they are. Not sure if they benefit at all from being any other ethos, since they cant use weapons.


edit: alignment is your world view about self or others, and ethos is the manner in which these views are expressed.

or

ethos is how you treat everything, and alignment is the underlying reasons.


And illithids would want to enslave even justice types, but you can be slayed/outcasted/denied from the game for being a lawful and attacking in town, and you can't become a justice to enslave everyone, only a Legion could do that, and that'd put justice on the other side of the deny fence again.

[Vhrael]

OMFG... okay, for the record...

AR "LAWFUL" != D&D "LAWFUL

'help lawful':

[Ergorion]

I don't know, the thing that pissed me off about the illithid chaotic-only things was that they can't be Mystics. I think it would be pretty sweet to roll up an illu, joing Mystics, and put all your trains in mana, get mana gear and see if you could break 2k mana.

[Mandor]

uh.. thats what I've been saying Vhrael. and anyway, a skillset of a class doesn't determine chaotic or lawful, its how you use it. you're just seeing it in one perception way.

[Master]

Also from "Help Illusionist":

[Vhrael]

Boiled down:

AR illithids are not D&D illithids.

AR lawful is not D&D lawful.

It is the way it is because it's the way it is.

[divsky]

My argument wasn't that illithids should be allowed to be lawful, I completely understand that this doesn't fit in with the illusionist class. Perhaps if there was another illithid class they could be lawful, but that would be an entirely different circumstance.

What I don't like is that illithids are entirely limited to chaotic only. I brought up the example of D&D illithids being lawful-only to illustrate how this is very contrary to the widely accepted illithid concept. Again, I understand that AR is not D&D, but if we stray too far from the concept we're borrowing from, why even call them illithids?

I just think that illithids shouldn't be chaotic only. In fact, I don't think they should be chaotic at all. It would make a lot more sense for them to be neutral only rather than chaotic only, but I would be okay with them being able to choose from both. From AR's helpfile:

[Mandor]

well chaotic is freedom and no qualms about choosing the most selfish path. you can be a cold and calculating, calm and collected chaotic evil. they dont all have to be insane. chaotic evil is more like completely without any hesitation in the most direct path. illithid would exemplify this among the "lesser races" since they would be unlikely to consider lesser races worth getting along with, other than to use for power.

all helpfiles are not completely inclusive, just examples to interpret what sort of direction to go.

[divsky]

[Mandor]

well a neutral evil would go in on contracts, following the law, and other things when benefitting them, a chaotic evil would care less. that was the latter part you quoted.

[Master]

Since illusionists are both neutral and chaotic, and they're an illithid's only option, why not just let them be neutral? I honestly can't see them being lawful, but they don't strike me as blatantly chaotic. Actually, they don't strike me as being anything but just plain evil. They're simply malevolent.