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Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Posts: 379
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Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:48 am Post subject: Changes to all 2 hand swords or just the claymores of Ofcol? |
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So, the Claymores in ofcol have been restrung to highland claymores, and to top it off they are no longer oversized but two handed. I can't really say I agree with this, since one of the reasons to pick giant over human size or halfling size was the ability to wield oversized weapons in one hand. It seems like the removal of options, unless overbearing claymore giants were becoming some sort of issue. What do you guys think? |
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Ergorion
Joined: 16 Mar 2007 Posts: 2156
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Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:24 am Post subject: Re: Changes to all 2 hand swords or just the claymores of Of |
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Fireballe2 wrote: |
So, the Claymores in ofcol have been restrung to highland claymores, and to top it off they are no longer oversized but two handed. I can't really say I agree with this, since one of the reasons to pick giant over human size or halfling size was the ability to wield oversized weapons in one hand. It seems like the removal of options, unless overbearing claymore giants were becoming some sort of issue. What do you guys think? |
I think you're never going to use a claymore past level 15 so it's really a non-issue. |
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Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Posts: 379
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Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:51 am Post subject: |
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I cant really think of a better oversize/2h sword to pick up on the fly if you need one. It's got pretty good stats. also I discovered that there's two versions of the claymore inside Ofcol. the original and this new weird one, so I guss the topic is neverminded. |
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Olyn Immortal
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 3249 Location: Pennsylvania
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Posted: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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There's plenty of oversized stuff out there. The deficient weapon area is weapons that are always two-handed that are not polearm/staff/bow. This is a high need area for large size characters. |
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Nycticora
Joined: 09 Feb 2013 Posts: 2277
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Fireballe2, you fundamentally misunderstand how oversized weapons and twohand weapons work at the most basic level. |
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Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Posts: 379
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 4:31 am Post subject: |
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I'd like to know what you base that assumption off of, Nyctorica. If you really think that, why don't you enlighten me.
Is it the double enhanced damage from wielding a weapon with both hands you're thinking of? An oversized weapon in 2 hands for a normal size will have double enhanced just like a 2 hand weapon, while it will be wielded in one hand if you're one size larger than normal, making it of the same value as another single handed sword. |
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Vayne
Joined: 26 Dec 2013 Posts: 13
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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Forgive the newbie questions... I assume that size is what determines what weapons one can wield in one hand? i.e. Gnomes, halflings, possibly even dwarves are size small naturally, humans, elves and the like are naturally medium, and giants are size large?
Also, I noticed illusionists can enlarge/shrink themselves and others... An enlarged human is the same 'size' as a 'normal' giant, yes?
(Ah, I just looked up "size" on the main website. Looks like I was basically correct, only dwarves are medium too.)
I am assuming an enlarged human can wield an oversized weapon in one hand, but an enlarged gnome/halfling cannot. Also, I would assume a giant under shrink is unable to wield oversized weapons in one hand.
Also, not to derail the topic further, but when I think of 'normal size', I base it on my character. "normal" for a gnome or halfling is not the same as for a human, likewise with giants, etc. |
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Davairus Implementor
Joined: 16 Jan 2004 Posts: 10351 Location: 0x0000
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Posted: Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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This will help to illustrate the point.
Code: |
Object 'storm headed hammer' is type weapon, material stone.
Extra flags: wild.
Weight is 35 lbs, value is 10, level is 35.
Weapon type is mace/club.
Inflicts 3 to 48 degrees of smash (average 25).
Oversized weapon.
Rare item.
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Code: |
Object 'heron blade' is type weapon, material steel.
Extra flags: glow anti_evil anti_neutral.
Weight is 10 lbs, value is 3, level is 45.
Weapon type is sword.
Inflicts 5 to 45 degrees of slash (average 25).
Augments 4 layers of hitroll.
Augments 5 layers of damroll.
Augments 25 layers of health.
Rare item.
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If you are a human, what you have here is an ok two-handed mace and a very nice one-handed sword.
If you are a giant, what you have instead is two very nice one-handed weapons. You've gained better one-handed weapon selection, but you've lost two-handed weapon selection in return. Having a two-handed weapon choice would've been more useful to a berserker than having a mace option instead of a sword. This has finer uses in PK but its not something you can just immediately put to use with wild smash and overhead etc. The thing is, two-handed weapons are really desirable, so its not like we're going to toot our horns over being able to use more weapons with the same avg at the cost of losing those. It comes down to whether the weapons are there in the game for this to be a benefit, and we're kinda light on the two-handed only weapons.
This is why I added the highland claymore, as well as this item, which has been there forever and is two-handed for a large race:
Code: |
Object 'black double-bladed battle axe' is type weapon, material onyx.
Extra flags: hum wild.
Weight is 40 lbs, value is 4, level is 50.
Weapon type is axe.
Inflicts 4 to 52 degrees of cleave (average 28).
Two-handed weapon.
Rare item.
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And is also why I added this item, which giants can wield one-handed (this really is the best, if you can wear it as one-handed):
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Object 'dead chains human steel' is type weapon, material flesh.
Extra flags: nodrop.
Weight is 50 lbs, value is 1, level is 50.
Weapon type is mace/club.
Inflicts 12 to 48 degrees of beating (average 30).
Oversized weapon.
Augments 5 layers of damroll.
Augments 20 layers of health.
Unique item.
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However, both of those items are difficult to obtain.
We just need to add a few mid range stuff. Its no big deal. |
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Fireballe2
Joined: 19 Jun 2012 Posts: 379
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Posted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:30 pm Post subject: |
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hmm, I tend to look down on anything two handed that isn't a polearm. I mean, a 2h mace is an inferior offensive weapon to a polearm, a 2h sword is an inferior defensive weapon, and the polearm equals both of those in the opposite role as well. If I had the choice between two identical average and hit/dam weapons, and one was a polearm and the other wasn't, I'd pick the polearm.
like you said, a 2 handed mace is an Ok weapon, but if its in a large race hand for being 1 handed, it's a great weapon. There's the double enhanced, but then there's the offensive and defensive rating of the mace class of weapon, the loss of an offhand defense or offense, and the vulnerability to getting hosed by a disarm. Of course, there are obvious benefits for certain classes to have two handed weapons, even if they aren't polearms. Set parry and anti-disarm, all that business. Even with that, a polearm of equal average still seems like an upgrade due to it's slightly better class stats for offense and defense, and you can't charge with a mace or sword (although you used to be able to with a sword back in the day). |
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